Would $6.00/gal. gas do the trick?

That's an interesting article, but I'm not surprised at what it describes. Commuter rail service, of any kind, in Northern Virginia is of relatively recent vintage--- people don't have the experience in using commuter trains that people in, say the Philadelphia or New York areas do, with their systems which date back almost 100 years. VRE also has a problem similar to Amtrak in that it uses CSX rails, over which CSX freight trains have priority.

In actuality, I have always felt that an extension of DC's Metrorail system into some of those further out areas ( in both Virginia AND Maryland), with trains running throughout the day and evening and with more convenient access to the entire region than trains terminating at Union Station provide, would be a more useful situation, but that's not even on the drawing board at this time.

it would not matter, $6 gas would pretty much destroy the economy, remember trucks use diesel to get just about EVERYTHING you buy to the store you purchase it from

people would not be able to afford to EAT, let along go to work

people would not be able to afford to EAT, let along go to work

Absolutely right. $6/gal is TOO DARN much for me to pay. Although always take the T's Red Line or MBCR to/from work, since the parking price is too high in Boston.

I justy hope $6.00 a gallon NEVER ever happens, I won't be too happy about that.

Up here $3 per gallon sure has peaked some people's interest. Ridership on SOUNDER, already doing good on the South Line, is up, and so is ridership on Sounder North, which now has two trains. I remember talking about the high price of gas with a Metro bus driver, and he said he hopes they stay in the $2-$3 per gallon range, called it job security. High Diesel Prices may have forced Metro to end weekend dieselizations of their trackless trolley routes, done 2 years ago, citing the aeging articulated trackless trolleybus fleet, as the reason.

Although replacing the Waterfront Streetcar with a Diesel Bus for the next two years is one of the worst ideas they could do right now. Too bad Mayors, County Eecutives, and Governors do not have the authority to cancel decisions between government agencies. The Parks Department and the Seattle Art Museum conspired to take out the Waterfront Streetcar's maintenance facility, and to extend the line south to Metro property in SODO was too expensive to justify, because only one station at best would be added, and the buisnesses did not want it. Personally, I think that the Art Museum should compensate Metro for the extra diesel it costs to cover Route 99, and not at Metro's discounted price, but at the cost of the most expensive gallon in the past couple months, for 2 years. I saw Diesel at $3.29 a Gallon once, myself.

As for Commuter Trains, Perhaps a hybrid-electric locomotive that could recapture the energy lost during braking would be a great idea to boost fuel efficiency. Also, perhaps encourage carpooling to the train stations, such as reserving a few spots close to the platform for carpools. HOV Diamonds would be a good mark for the spots, of course Disabled Parking would have to still be closest to the Platform.

I don't know about $6/gal in the US affecting the economy, but after metric conversion and currency conversion, we're already paying close to that up here in Canada, and the economy seems to be humming along nicely.

I can't even stand paying $2.40/gallon. I don't make much money and just bought a new car because the T doesn't have the level of service I need to be able to do without one. I still use the T for work but I drive for everything else just about. I went four years without out one, did my shopping etc. via T, rough.

Would be great to be ready though if $6 per gallon does happen. Atlanta had some stations try to gouge customers after Katrina? Imagine if MARTA had a bigger system than they already had, possibly integrating the Heavy Rail system with a Light Rail, BRT, and Commuter Rail Network. If people had an alternative, perhaps the gas stations would not have been so ready to gouge the motorists.

railfanofewu wrote:Would be great to be ready though if $6 per gallon does happen. Atlanta had some stations try to gouge customers after Katrina? Imagine if MARTA had a bigger system than they already had, possibly integrating the Heavy Rail system with a Light Rail, BRT, and Commuter Rail Network. If people had an alternative, perhaps the gas stations would not have been so ready to gouge the motorists.

I fully expect that $6 per gallon would accelerate telecommuting as much if not more than expansion of transit availability. A very large percentage of office jobs could be switched to telecommute.

Not exactly related to the discussion, but an interesting aside. In some countries, where oil is easy to get, the price is still cheap. Going by some figures given on a television news report, in Saudia Arabia, the price of gasoline is currently around 75 cents a gallon and, in Venezuela, it's a whopping 15½¢. By contrast, the price per (US) gallon in the U.K. is about $10.

Ken V wrote:Not exactly related to the discussion, but an interesting aside. In some countries, where oil is easy to get, the price is still cheap. Going by some figures given on a television news report, in Saudia Arabia, the price of gasoline is currently around 75 cents a gallon and, in Venezuela, it's a whopping 15½¢. By contrast, the price per (US) gallon in the U.K. is about $10.

Perhaps $10 per gallon gasoline in the UK helps keep the Private Operators of transit and passenger trains making money. Who knows, if gas was not so cheap here, transit could have been profitable.

A lot of the price of gas in the UK (and most of Europe, and here in New Zealand) is tax, and a lot of that tax is used to subsidise public transport, so you have a twofold effect; higher gas prices encourage people to use public transport, plus it can be improved using the funds from the gas tax. Both improve transit, which attracts more riders, which makes more transit viable — a snowball effect.

I am relatively new to regular commuting by train to work (I have done it for approximately 5 weeks). My job is extremely far from my home in Williams Bay Wisconsin. Work place is 75 miles away in Wheaton, Illinois. Unfortunately, telecommuting is only seldom usable since I have to do site inspections and coordinate visually with other employees (landscape architects, etc.) so I have to go down there at least 3 or 4 days a week. If I drive it it costs approximately $18.00 a day for fuel alone in my vehicle that gets 25 miles a gallon.

If I take Metra on the NW line from Harvard, IL to Downtown Chicago (Olgilvie) and hop on the UP-West train to Wheaton (a short walk through Olgilvie to catch it), it takes approximately 3 hours to get to work, depending on connections and train timing. The cost of this is approximately $10.00 a day with the Metra monthly pass, which is good on both lines since it is unlimited between zones (Harvard is Zone M, the farthest zone, so my Zone A to M ticket allows me to ride an unlimited amount throughout the Metra systemv ). Throw in $3.00 for the 25 mile round trip for gas to Harvard and I am saving real money ($13.00 vs $18.00 a day, not to mention the reduced wear and tear on the car), which translates to $100 a week or $1200 per year. Also I get to write off $1200.00 of the train ticket expenses on my taxes.

Work has also provided me with a laptop so my time on the train can be put to productive usage and hence billable time. Driving is lost, wasted time, even though the drive time is only about 60 percent of the train ride time.

The economics is obvious. Not only that, but my office is right across the street from the Metra station in Wheaton, which is one of the reasons I took the job, despite the long distance from home. Now, if only the Metra extensions to Walworth, WI would get serious consideration! The feasibility study for this was biased in that it assumed a constant gas price adjusted for inflation of $2.35 a gallon, which is woefully low. Anybody have any stats on how fuel prices are affecting ridership on Metra and the relative efficiency of Metra versus driving per passenger mile?

Prairiefire wrote: Anybody have any stats on how fuel prices are affecting ridership on Metra and the relative efficiency of Metra versus driving per passenger mile?

I don't have actual hard data, but rising fuel prices coupled with a major reconstruction of the Dan Ryan Expressway has forced additional motorists to consider Metra as an alternative, which is reflected by a recent spike in ridership along south suburban markets with expressway corridors that eventually feed into the Dan Ryan. Even though Metra isn't going to work for everyone, the economics in savings as you've outlined should pretty much work out the same for those that can use Metra, particularly for residents of the far south/southwest suburbs who would benefit the most.

Prairiefire wrote:Now, if only the Metra extensions to Walworth, WI would get serious consideration!

And if it does happen (a big if), it would represent a second attempt to provide commuter rail service to that destination. The old Milwaukee Road (under the auspices of the RTA at the time) once provided commuter service to Walworth, but alas, the last train left there in 1982. Anything is possible I suppose, but don't get your hopes up...

$6 a gallon gas would certainly increase telecommuting to the extent that management would allow.

The company for which I work now is a big believer. The company I worked for before cancelled all telecommuting after a regime change and required office attendance "to foster teamwork" (real reason: we want you where we can see you as we don't trust you).

The question is whether the current city-near suburb-far suburb-exurb demographic and culture is really sustainable with $6 per gallon gas. There is a "tipping point"-- I don't pretend to know what it is-- at which the ring structure (some would say "donut") of most medium to large size cities collapses. Maybe it's $6 per gallon, maybe $16, maybe $26, who can say?

When and if that happens, the existing transit systems, which only go out so far, will be of tremendous value. I'm sure than in some metro areas where there is no rail transit, busses will be tried first, or perhaps carpools, but where there is rail or the possibilty of starting it up quickly I can see it coming back into play.

And would cities be ready for the migration back to the center? Mine sure isn't. I doubt that many really are. They're having enough trouble coping with the issues of outbound migration.

Then of course, there's an even more extreme possibility: return to the village or small town-like settlements where you could walk to get much of what you needed. Given the 'net and mail order, maybe that's not necessary-- although who knows what stamps will cost if gas is in the double digits, and how frequent delivery will be.

It's an interesting conversation, although a bit scary as well.