Why were C420's mainly operated long hood forward?

Since one would think visibility is less, why do it? Just wondering aloud.

I was told that the old timers; Many being former steam guys, preferred the long hood forward for crash protection.
The decision was probably made by addressing the concerns of the carrier, the engineer union, and the engine manufacture.

Thats pretty much it. It was the BLE that asked the LIRR to run them long hood foward with the Engineers control stand on the right side. This was to lessen the chance of the Engineer being scalded to death from the steam generator if they had a grade crossing accident.

Was on a Train where the steam Generator exploded, no one was injured but it was no fun.
Im assuming most people here know that up untill the arrival of the G-P 38's much of the LIRR Diesel Coaches used steam heat generated by the Engines.

The bottom line was that the control stands were oriented for LHF operation and that the L1/L2s were oriented as such because of the above reasons. On the picture below, note the "F" on the sill of the hood end indicating that the designated front of the unit is the hood end.

Doc is correct -- It was the desire of the engineers for protection against crossing accidents.

The early generation of hood engines across America were usually supplied for operation with the long hood forward. First generation PRR hoods (GP7s, GP9s, RS11s, RSD15s, etc.) were labeled and operated long hood forward.

Shortly before the C-420's arrived, the Budd RDC accident of October, 1967 had claimed engineer Patsy Molese's life in a grade crossing accident with a gravel truck.

His fireman, who had been operating the train, was shoved out of the cab in the last seconds by Molese. He had moved up to Superintendent - Engine Service when the Alcos were ordered and the Company was glad to oblige in making the job safer.

That is why the C-420 operated long hood forward.

Tool,
JJC was not SES until 1979 or 1980. He followed RLS and FM Jr.
The ALCO 420s were delivered while he still was working as an Engineer/Fireman in the mid-sixties, and in fact the Molese tradgedy happened in 1967.
I'm not trying to be adversive, just trying to get the timeline right. I came around in 1974, was furloughed in 1976 and had to turn over my keys to RLS, who seemed delighted that we were being sent on the street.
Then after the GR stop signal incident in Jamaica, I remember FM Jr., newly-made SES giving GR a pardon for what was something of a muddy situation at best. All of us in the field thought that was the best thing we ever saw from high management.
But the question is: Who was the SES at the time of the Holbrook Budd Cars accident in 1967?

Wow did not know JJC was the one Pasty shoved out.. Learn something new every day.
Remember when FM, JR Picked the switch coming into Yard D, and we almost had a train in the trainmens room in Jamaica? lol

I did not say that, Guap. JJC was the Fireman operating the train, as far as the story goes. The DOT official report lists no names of any people involved with the tragedy. The report is redily available online. The remains of the pile of stone spilled from the truck still is there.

From JJ's own account, he saw the truck, dumped the train and rode it out, laying on the horn. Patsy jumped up, grabbed him by the shirt, and shoved him into the aisle. Then it was all over.

Yes, 452, I always value your notations and corrections. You were there. Was RS the Superintendent when the Alcos came?

And, Doc, you may recall that FM was voted "engineer of the year" shortly after that Jamaica derailment got him demoted from Road Foreman back running. The union was selling 50-50 chances for their dance. Every chance came with a vote. FM bought all the chances.

As I recall this theme(s) was in play a while back and was timely then too. Anyone know the thread location? I did do a search, found references to long hood, etc., but not the thread location(s).

Steve

I think the ALCO forum has a couple of LIRR C420 topics.

It always surprised me that steam generators took so long to phase out. With commuter trains, steam was out of the picture by 1955 and clearly not coming back. Yet it took 30 more years to eradicate steam heat. That's thirty years of maintaining boilers and steam lines. That had to be an expensive task.

When I qualified in 1978, they sent us "Upstairs" In Jamaica to get the traditional speech from a supervisor. RS was that supervisor chosen for my class.
Highlights I recall was dont think you can BS us, we were out there before you and know all the stories. Stick to the truth and you we be treated fairly.
During that RR regime which ended in the mid 80's that was true, if you told the truth and did not try and BS them, you were treated pretty well.
As I have posted before, the supervisors of that era made their way up through the Ranks, and even if not particularly liked, were respected as Railroaders, because they had done the job, and knew it. Even JB in port wash, while he could be a hard A** if ya did not bs him even he was fair in his judgements.
My FM Jr. Story..Was on a train that hit a "trespasser" it was a mess, body parts all over. Had to Go to Jamaica and give a statement.
Afterwards I went across the street to the bar to have a drink. ( Station Cafe? I forget, its been gone for years) I was not a drinker, but just needed to take the edge off, it was a mess.
In walks FM JR, and I have a drink in my hand, off duty but in uniform.
I was like ah crap Im done, we were not to drink in public in uniform.
FM Comes up to me, and says, dont worry, I dont blame ya after what you just saw.
Like I said they were pretty fair, and he was known to lift a glass or 2.

My uncle was a LIRR engineer. He said that the long hood ahead was done because if the unit had to run backward, the engineer could still see the signals around the short hood. If the units were set up for short hood forward, then it would have been much harder to see signals, in reverse, around the long hood.
This was more handy as the firemen were eliminated.

After all this on the C420's having LHF as the front, why then SHF on the GP-38's? Do they have dual control stands? Or did a suitable combination of wyes and double ending during their service period for LIRR make running in reverse too infrequent to worry about?