Why did the SOAC project fail?

I've never heard a real answer about this. I know that the Boeing-Vertol LRVs were a failure, but were the SOAC cars poorly designed, also? Was it that there were already good enough Rapid-Transit cars on the market, and the SOAC cars were pointless? Were they too expensive? Were no subway systems looking for new cars at this point?

Since the SOACs were essentially based on the New York Subway's R44 cars, I don't see how they could be thought of as having "failed" in and of themselves. What failed (and rightly so) was the attempt at centralization by the USDOT; since the SOAC, they got out of R&D for rapid transit cars and stayed out.

I'd say that since no other cars were built other than the one married pair, the project was "failed" in that aspect.

Though, the things learned by the project, I suppose, have been helpful. And yes, I have heard that the frame for them was simply a R44 car, but, I thought, much of the technology in the actual body was much newer and fairly different.

The SOAC cars were never intended to be production rapid transit cars, but more along the line of "concept cars" in the automotive industry. However one of the real problems with the cars was that in order to produce a "sexier" appearance to the front end, some of the critical crash protection (corner posts and/or collision posts) from the R-44 were removed. As a result, most transit agencies refused to run the cars in demonstration revenue service as unsafe. I think they did operate on CTA's Skokie Swift for a brief period, but of course were too wide for standard CTA high-level platforms.

BTW the cars are now on display at the Seashore Trolley Museum.

Pete Schmidt

polybalt wrote:The SOAC cars were never intended to be production rapid transit cars, but more along the line of "concept cars" in the automotive industry. However one of the real problems with the cars was that in order to produce a "sexier" appearance to the front end, some of the critical crash protection (corner posts and/or collision posts) from the R-44 were removed. As a result, most transit agencies refused to run the cars in demonstration revenue service as unsafe. I think they did operate on CTA's Skokie Swift for a brief period, but of course were too wide for standard CTA high-level platforms.

BTW the cars are now on display at the Seashore Trolley Museum.

Pete Schmidt

Ah, i never heard about safety issues. Thanks! And yeah, that does make sense with the concept car analogy.

Yes, I have seen them there in person, that's what got me curious, actually. Seashore is a great place!

polybalt wrote:I think they did operate on CTA's Skokie Swift for a brief period, but of course were too wide for standard CTA high-level platforms

According to this page, the platforms that the SOAC cars (width 9' 7¼", length 75') used had adjustable "flaps"; these would be in the "up" position for CTA-width cars (width 8' 8", length 48').

Of course, back in North Shore Line days, Dempster had low platforms. If the North Shore had hung on, perhaps a SOAC-like treatment could have been applied to a car like the CTA's 2200-series, but with more crash protection and low-platform boarding capability? Would have made an interesting replacement for the Electroliners.

No the SOAC project did not fail. I have been to the Seashore Trolley Museum and what came out of this was the DC and Atlanta Metro cars. The Idea that commuting by train could actually be a pleasant experience with comfy seats and a smooth ride as opposed to a punitive experance with hard seats and a jerky ride like the NYC subway. I have ridden the entire DC System and the entire NYC Sub system and my vote is for DC in terms of comfort. I could snooze from rockville to franconia and be safe and have a good rest

The SOAC has a place in my heart more due to timing than anything else. I was spending the summer of 1974 at my grandmother's house in Boston. She lived on Sydney Street - with the MBTA Red Line (between Columbia and Savin Hill) in her backyard. I had been a fan of trains for only a couple of years and loved riding the subway.

I don't know HOW I'd heard of the "State Of the Art Car" but I bugged my grandmother to wait for it whenever we'd had reason to get on the subway. That was nothing new since I'd done the same thing when the Silverbirds first came to Boston.

They were smooth, quiet, comfortable. Beat the heck out of the 1400-series Bluebirds that I constantly saw in the backyard. I was really thinking this was the future of mass transportation (but, then, I also thought monorails would grow in popularity and be a perfect complement to subways - what can I say, I was was a kid).

It's sad to see the parts of them in such bad shape in Kennebunkport but at least they're there and being taken care of as best as is practical. I remember being there some years ago and they'd said the ONE volunteer working on the cars had managed to get one or more of the doors working. The bad news was that the cars drew too much power and would never run on their tourist line.

When I went to Seashore, they told me that the cars were owned by the government still, and it would be difficult to get permission to restore them, not that the cars drew too much power, but that seems like a good enough reason too.

Everyone: Knowing that the SOAC cars are "two of a kind" literally I feel that they should be kept in at least decent
condition and hopefully the "red tape" can be cut knowing that the USDOT is still the owner...these are good 70s
era prototypes...It was a good move that these were preserved...

As some know these cars are similar to the NYCT R-44 cars-they could be a source of parts for these knowing these are being retired...if the Seashore Rail museum can get perhaps at least one cab unit to preserve or more for replaceable parts...

MACTRAXX

djlong wrote:They were smooth, quiet, comfortable. Beat the heck out of the 1400-series Bluebirds that I constantly saw in the backyard.

Almost anything was better than a Bluebird. There were SOAC brochures that did state that the cars were not production models and were intended to showcase state of the art technology.

Why did the SOAC project fail?

It didn't! It succeeded! Pretty much all cars made since have used elements included in it as well as lessons learned from its mistakes!