Whats so wrong with Airtrain JFK?

I was on the Van Wyck today using that to jump from the LIE to SSP/Belt Pkwy in attempt to get to Staten island, and I know I here you guys complain about Airtrain JFK.

My question is what is so wrong with it? the time it took me to go from where Airtrain connects with 678 to the airport i was beaten by 3 trains.

If traffic is normally anything like it was today around 3:30 and I had to choose between driving and Airtrain JFK, I'm choosing the train.

And you guys do know that it is not owned nor operated by the MTA right? So any gripes you have you can't blame the MTA but the The Port Authority.

I beleive the hatread was because many wanted the rockaway beach branch to be used to woodside instead of to jamaica basically use/restore existing infastructure.

I like the AirTrain but LaGuradia should've been a top priority IMO.

I don't think there's anything wrong with it. In fact, it's kind of cool. I suppose it would be nice if it were heavy rail, governed by the FRA for safety sake, or maybe tuscan red interurban cars run by the PRR with trolley poles, but I think it's a neat system. Probably could have paid every passenger for limos for the remainder of the 21st Century with what it cost us, but it's only tax money...

Clem

I don't find anything wrong with it. I think it is worth the 5 dollars riding.

About the Rockaway ROW, I personally think it should be converted to a subway line. A subway would serve the area just fine.

I've been on it twice just to get the experience of it. It's a smooth quick ride. I don't feel that there's really anything wrong with it. It's just that any major project done in New York never gets done right. Politics, unions, Nimbys and everything associated, place such pressure on these projects that something as simple as a one seat ride from NYC to JFK becomes a logistical nightmare. I am not sure what the current ridership is but I'm sure the thought of "changing at Jamaica" discourages alot of potential users. Using the old Rockaway branch would have given that one seat ride not only from NYC but from points east as well

Clem, you mentioned that it is not governed by the FRA. Which government agency is responsible for safety on the AirTrain? OSHA or some other agency?

Frank what subway would run that line from woodsie to rockaway? the 7B train i would beleive that it would need to be a variation of the 7 train. but thats a good idea if not the lirr agian.

the only thing wrong with it is that the PA built it with air passenger money so it could not serve the community that it runs too. a stop alone on linden blvd would pay the cost back in 5 years.. oh well.

I don't think there is anything wrong with it, I just think it would have been better if the old Rockaway Beach Branch could have been used as some one mentioned above. If done that way it could have provided a single seat/single fair ride from Manhatten and LI to JFK making the trip much easier for our customers.
Of course I am baised because using the Rockway Beach Branch would mean it would be LIRR trains going to JFK which would mean more jobs for me and my fellow employees.

Long Island 7285 wrote:Frank what subway would run that line from woodsie to rockaway? the 7B train i would beleive that it would need to be a variation of the 7 train. but thats a good idea if not the lirr agian.

It would run elevated from Liberty Ave. it would go underground at around Yellowstone Blvd. and run under Junction Blvd. to La Guardia Airport.

So the Howard Beach Station is not good enough?

you guys know the neighborhoods and areas better than me, thats why I am asking.

I think that Jamaica Station is a great idea as It is already a busy hub/terminus and since all the LIRR trains have to pass through it what better place to build the station.

RRChef wrote:Using the old Rockaway branch would have given that one seat ride not only from NYC but from points east as well

Where is the Old Rockaway Beach Branch ROW located? How could it just be a single seat/fair from LI and Manhattan? Somebody somewhere would have to transfer to catch it coming from LI. Everything diverges on Jamaica Station for LIRR so maybe thatss was the Port Authority's reasoning to have it start there.

With the current set-up commuters coming from the City has two ways of getting to the airport with the Howard Beach Station and then Jamaica.

Also you can thank the MTA for the additional fare that you have to pay. Airtrain Newark Liberty also run by the Port Authority allows free transfers with your NJT Train or Amtrak ticket. The same arrangement could have been made for Airtrain JFK, but I doubt that the MTA would allow it as then it would cut into their profits of charging the Port Authority fees for accepting the Metrocard. Just my opinion.

All the following is memory and hearsay...

One of One-Sixty wrote:So the Howard Beach Station is not good enough?

I have heard that it was once possible to walk (schlep? well, maybe not if you're an airport worker) from Howard Beach station to the airport terminals via the parking lots for free (and wasn't there a bus shuttle too?) - Now you gotta pay.
Also, the Howard Beach Station setup is nothing like Chicago's O'Hare Blue Line, where the station (as I remember) was under a central parking garage, and you just walked out to your terminal...

Where is the Old Rockaway Beach Branch ROW located? How could it just be a single seat/fair from LI and Manhattan? Somebody somewhere would have to transfer to catch it coming from LI. Everything diverges on Jamaica Station for LIRR so maybe thatss was the Port Authority's reasoning to have it start there.

OK, the intersection w/ the LIRR mainline was ... West of Kew Gardens? (well, somewhere between Jamaica & Woodside) so via LIRR it would have been a single fare to NY Penn, and most likely a transfer at Jamaice for the LI travelers.
Now, what if we had a subway connection instead (or in addition) - the obvious connect the dots routing is Queens Blvd E/F to JFK via the Rockaway Beach line, although I understand there is capacity problems with this ID. I guess you could use the 'Train-To-The-Plane' routing of the A via Brooklyn to JFK via Rockaway, but not sure how fast that would be either. Heh, bring back the 1960s planned Queens Blvd super-express and there you go...

Also you can thank the MTA for the additional fare that you have to pay. Airtrain Newark Liberty also run by the Port Authority allows free transfers with your NJT Train or Amtrak ticket..

OK, total vague memory here of complaints on this and other boards - the Amtrak/NJT fares to Newark are killer ($11 [?]), and at one point I think it was cheaper to buy a one way to Elizabeth from Penn (NY or Newark), get off at Waverly (Newark Airport), buy an AirTrain ticket there and (in-effect) toss the remainder of the NJT Elizabeth ticket.

Note: other people have discussed this also in the past, for example:

According to the New Jersey Transit website (www.njtransit.com) the adult train fare one way from NY Penn Station to Elizabeth is $4.15 and from Newark Penn Station to Elizabeth it is $1.65. The new station is located between Newark and Elizabeth. Note, not all trains will stop at this new station and they may have security checking for those who try to cheat the system. They have to do something to justify the added cost.

This in response to the announce that the fare would be 11.15 from NY Penn to Newark Airport, including the AirTrain fee
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/archive/ ... 06774.html

I know that this is "beating a dead horse but"................ Open up "Google Maps", (the satalite version) and type in OZONE PARK, N.Y. When the area pops up, zoom in and you will be able to see where the Rockaway Beach left the main line, where it goes through Forrest Park over Jamaica Ave, and the station at Atlantic Ave. At the Atlantic Ave. area you'll see all the yellow school busses that are parked there now and as plain as day, you'll see where the line connected with the Atlantic Ave line. When you go further on, you'll see the Ozone Park Station whose platforms are huge. (a city block long) Then you'll see the race track where the "A Train" cuts in and further on, the AirTrain Station where, incidently, the railroad might have connected with.

I have nothing against AirTrain, I think that it was misplaced and really belongs in Disneyland, but, think about it, wouldn't it have been more logical (KEY WORD LOGIC) to go from Penn to the airport in one train? or vice versa? Penn Station connects with everything. If you have to go to Jamaica you could change trains at Ozone Park or maybe they would have a train that would go there from the airport, unfortunately, we'll never know will we.

The old LIRR ROW was built upon over the years and the LIRR never bothered to challange the construction, thus they legally lost their right to the land (unless that's different for a state agency, though they'd have a hard time arguing the case anyway).

Reactivating the line was going to be a disaster, period.

And for what? A slower, far more expensive to run operation at the mercy of scarce Penn slots, Amtrak's inability to manage traffic in the tunnels, and whatever rotting eqiuipment the LIRR tosses to it today?

It likely wouldn't have cost less to build either.

The real answer would have been a cheap/simple extension of the A to JFK and a revival of the old JFK super express (presumeably as a new service as opposed to another stop on the A). This is a good answer for LGA, too - just run the N (R?) down Astoria Blvd to LGA and run a 1 - 2 stop LGA - 42nd street - 33rd street train.

Nasadowsk wrote:The old LIRR ROW was built upon over the years and the LIRR never bothered to challange the construction, thus they legally lost their right to the land (unless that's different for a state agency, though they'd have a hard time arguing the case anyway).

Reactivating the line was going to be a disaster, period.

And for what? A slower, far more expensive to run operation at the mercy of scarce Penn slots, Amtrak's inability to manage traffic in the tunnels, and whatever rotting eqiuipment the LIRR tosses to it today?

It likely wouldn't have cost less to build either.

The real answer would have been a cheap/simple extension of the A to JFK and a revival of the old JFK super express (presumeably as a new service as opposed to another stop on the A). This is a good answer for LGA, too - just run the N (R?) down Astoria Blvd to LGA and run a 1 - 2 stop LGA - 42nd street - 33rd street train.

The (N) Train was going to be extended if those Astoria NIMBYs didn't complain. The (7) train, (G) &/or (V) should go to LGA. I agree with the (A) train extension except I think it should be the (C) since the (A) is already up to its capacity IMO. I also agree about the Rockway Branch.