What's Up With the Last Door on a Train??

Some of the S.E.P.T.A. Philadelphia commuter crews explain the notice "Please remain seated until the train comes to a stop" as "If you get up before WE stop the train, we'll have to stop at the next station because we'll think you want to get off there." In other words "Stay seated so we can all get to the end of the line faster, whether you want to go that far or not!"
Once burned, the passenger is sure to get up early on every railroad's train!

you know why we don't like people to detrain out the rear door. because people don't pay attention. people feel like they can do what they want. T&E employees like to come out the last door so they can protect the rear of the train. after all most entrances and exits are near the center of the platform anyway. the last thing we need is a passenger falling off a train because the consist was to long and didn't fully make the platform and a passenger who's not paying attention walks off and falls to the roadbed. and the next thing you know it's WHY WASN"T SOMEONE THER TO HELP US!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Col. Perkowski wrote...

"FWIW, when I was stationed in Europe in the 80s, most DB trains, at most stations, had a ONE MINUTE dwell time at a station. You needed to be out of your compartment (2d or first class 6 man compartments) and at the door, ready to go."

It was the same in Japan and I think we actually had more like 30 sec. to train and de-train. Except for Tokyo during the rush-hours, then they allowed for the crush in and out (to some extent, they still had a time limit). It still amazes me how people were able to move through the masses to get in and out of those trains in that short of time.


The Honorable Mr. Norman also commented...

"Folks, as you get older, you experience a sense of balance deterioriation (there is a medical term for such but darned if I know it)."

There are also some of us young bucks who have medical conditions that affect our ballance as well (why I never learned to ride a 2-wheel bike). I remember swaying quite a bit on my standee runs to Akita City (and trips to-from Tokyo and Kyoto), I almost lost my ballance, even while holding onto the straps. I think I almost went down on a platform or two as well... standing during a twelve-hour (or something like that) train trip on the Tokaido line tends to wear you down (and contributes to the not-so-fast recovery of "land legs" after alighting from a moving object).


And, I think, I too, shall add to the commentary of other posters above with the "in a hurry, need to be first" mentality. Maybe some of them are procrastonators who, instead of padding their schedules and allowing for a nice, leisurly ride (maybe do some work, or sleep on the train), they planned for the runs that would take them up to the time they needed to be at their destination and are working off a schedule set to that timeframe? Maybe it's as henry6, said, having to make a connection. Again, referencing my time in Japan, there were many occasions when I had to get off the train and run like hell (sometimes across an entire station/terminal) to make a connection, otherwise, the next train wouldn't be for another half-hour or hour (Again, Tokyo is a whole 'nother beast, as trains are on a 5 minute headway... 3 during the rush hour), and even the best planned schedules sometimes didn't mean I would make the connection in time (had many an occasion where I just made the platform as the doors closed and the train pulled away).


I don't recall ever having the door issue, as the trains were usually the same length as the platforms, if not shorter. And the conductors (and/or "packing attendants" on the platforms (in Tokyo/Kyoto)) made sure everyone trained and de-trained safely.

(Not to turn this into another "me too" post, or brag about my time overseas, but being a fellow whom Mr. Norman noted, in an earlier posting, is from "God's Country," it's my only exposure to commuter rail (and, no, I haven't yet had the privilage of riding the Twin Cities' Hiawatha LRV yet). You may "zap" this one if you feel it's unnecessary.)

I hate to say, "Back in the old days..." but, back when the rear flagman had to protect the rear of the train, even in signaled territory, the rear doors were most always open because he was there.

Ironically today just had the opposite problem.

While stopped at Hudson station, decided to take a look out the rear vestibule.

The rear door was open. And this is a low platform station.

Fortunately the conductor had previously instructed everyone to exit at other doors so no one had to watch that first step.

Riding the Downeaster home from UNH, the conductor seems to want people to be up and aware that the station (in my case Woburn RTC) is coming up. I would not normally stand up, at least not too early, because I would be afraid of falling over or hitting people with any bags I'm carrying. But I sometimes feel pressure to do so from the conductor and/or other passengers all doing it. Maybe it depends on how far I'll have to walk to get to the exit door. They seem to only open one. Also, I think the train crew is trying hard to stay on schedule, as the Downeaster has typically been 5-10 minutes late as my stop approaches.

The rear door openeing or not can also have to do whether or not it is keyed open. Next time you're on a regional notice the door controls, which allow the crew member to open the door(s) ahead or behind the location he/she is positioned at.

Finch wrote:Riding the Downeaster home from UNH, the conductor seems to want people to be up and aware that the station (in my case Woburn RTC) is coming up. I would not normally stand up, at least not too early, because I would be afraid of falling over or hitting people with any bags I'm carrying. But I sometimes feel pressure to do so from the conductor and/or other passengers all doing it. Maybe it depends on how far I'll have to walk to get to the exit door. They seem to only open one. Also, I think the train crew is trying hard to stay on schedule, as the Downeaster has typically been 5-10 minutes late as my stop approaches.

Stay in your seat, until the train has stopped. If everybody kept their seats, then , yes, it would delay the deboarding process, & hence the loading of new psgrs. But most will stand & position themselves for a rapid exit. This tends to be human nature, & will help reduce dwell time in the station, which is almost the only way to recover to scheduled times. By the time you stand & collect your bags, you will still be able to join the line leading out.

A note on times: doing 90 mph for a full mile instead of 75 will only save you 8 seconds. If every stop is taking an extra 30-45 seconds more than normal, then running late is the only reasonable expectation!

Monkees see, monkees do!
Yes, I see the RACE TO THE TOP beginning two miles before arriving in "the city" on many morning rush hour trains. Now here's an amusinf FLIP SIDE of this: On many commuter trains arriving in the city, if therte's no station exit near the rear of the train, try riding in the LAST CAR of the train. Train capacity permitting, you'll see that when the train arrives at the station, the occupuants of that car are not in nearly as much of a race to be the first one off. In fact, some will sir comfortably and finish reading their newspaper article. Look at the faces of these people, they're more relaxed and civil. I guess they've "arrived" already! lol

nittany4 wrote:on a similar note

can anyone explain why people feel the need to stand for the last XX miles of their journey before the train stops?

i always find it amusing on the way to NYP that people get up and stand when the train enters the tunnel

it's not like it's a subway and you need to hop out before the doors shut

odd human nature i guess

no small matter. because the stairways in NYP are narrow and it can be a burden to be the last one on the platform and have to wait for foot traffic to catch up. Getting upstairs timely and catching the next subway... is very worth standing for 5 minutes on the train, rather than 5 minutes in the station.

Hi All,

Interesting points gentlemen. However, on Metrolink, you are told to be at the door of your choice as the train enters the station. They are on a tight schedule and so spend little time in each station.

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This discussion may continue in the General Discussion, Commuter and Transit forum. The thread will move intact.

We seem to have quit discussing Amtrak T&E crews management of doors at stations.

I've also been mystified about why a crew doesn't want to use all doors on a train at a high level platform, especially if they've got remote control.
The explanations I see here for the end door are
1: passenger might stumble onto the tracks. That's a bit far fetched to me, how often does a passenger fall against the side of the train after having alighted from a door between cars?
2: if it's a cab end the crew doesn't want a passenger entering the cab unattended. So what about the many commuter railroads that have MU's, where virtually every vestibule is a cab?

But what iks me are the number of times the crew neglects to open all the doors between cars. Most of my experience is with SEPTA. High level platform, 3 car train, they open only the doors between the first and second cars. And sometimes, still with high level platform, they open only 1 of the doors between the first and second platform. Does anybody notice similar behavior with other railroads? Any ideas why?