Wanted to take the Texas Eagle to LAX

Last September did 449 to CHI (bustitution boston - albany) connecting to 3 (SW Chief) to LAX then up to Simi Valley where I meet family. Return was Coast Starlight to Empire Builder to LSL to Boston, was bussed from Eugene to Portland to connect with the EB. All in all a very plesant trip (interesting to note that the bus got to Albany much faster that the train - we were an express though - only stop between BOS and ALB was Worcester.

Wanted to do roughly the same thing this year-instead of the SW Chief I wanted to do the Texas Eagle to LAX (different routing and one more night on the train) Booked the tix then started following train 1.

I now have changed my booking back to 449/3 to LAX because of the terrible OTP of the Sunset Limited, I simply could not risk getting into LAX 13 hours late - the actual ticket has me connecting in LAX with a 12:30 train to Simi Valley.

What could I have gotten myself into?

What would have happened if train 1 was so late that I could not get to Simi Valley at a reasonable hour? Would I get bussed from AZ to make a resonable connetion in LAX?
I have read most all the postings on this forum and am aware of the problems UP gives Amtrak

I have the opportunity to take long train trips but the trips have a purpose - I need to be somewhere on a specific day at a certain time.

I really wanted to do train 421 but could not risk being overly delayed.

As Cunard says, "Getting there is half the fun" but you want to get there via the mode of transport you selected (train) in a resonable time frame.

Molly Brown did get from Europe to the USA by boat - a few more than she expected and not as luxe but she arrived. IMHO it seems that the Sunset Limited, under the constraints that she faces (are trains female - I'm much more familiar with ships) from UP can be compared to the Titanic - just can't get around the obstacles in her path

Of course, if train 1's OTP improves to where it arrives on average 4 hrs late (say 10AM) then I would take 421 without a qualm.

Greatly appreciate any feedback.

It's hard to say. Amtrak guarantees transportation, but they don't guarantee a mode or a schedule. I don't have a timetable in front of me, so I don't know how many trips per day there are on the Surfliners (plus the Starlight) to Simi Valley, and what time they run.

If you've gotta be there during the daytime that day, then it's hard for me to recommend the Sunset. The Sunset could arrive 10 hours late (maybe later). I don't know when the last train to Simi Valley leaves LA, or whether commuter trains also serve the route in addition to Amtrak, but they probably wouldnt't bustitute you from Arizona if you had a chance to make a same-day connection to Simi Valley.

Of course, it all depends on when you travel, and whatever happens to that specific trip, and what you consider to be a "reasonable hour."

Well, Mr. HCM, why not simply board the overnight Sleeping car at Meredith that connects with the State of Maine at Lowell and arrive at GCT the next morning???? That's how I got home from summer camp in Multinborough.

Sorry, fifty year time warp got in the way.

Reportedly, Amtrak no longer guarantees that "Train 421-422" will connect at San Antionio. While, thanks to the gerrymandered routing of The Eagle (no "as the crow flies" applicable here), there are plenty of bustitution options to ensure passengers from 21 will connect with 1, only you can decide how the possibility of a, say, Dallas to El Paso "bustitute' (along with the possibility of a 3AM bus-train transfer) would "go down".

I would not be surprised in the least if I were to learn that "Train 421-422' were discontinued. Amtrak can ill-afford to have scarce Superliner equipment (apparently that now also includes Coaches) sitting idle at San Antonio.

Even though Amtrak still guarantees same day connections with the Sunset, I would not recommend scheduling same day arrival with ANY kind of event.

Unfortunately, considering the "meltdown' of Union Pacific service that within the past week was subject of a lead article in the Wall Street Journal, I think it is a wonder that Amtrak guarantees any connections abywhere with the Sunset.

Considering the little "boatitution" involved, your analogies to "The Unsinkable Molly Brown' are all too real.

It is unlikely that 421 will misconnect in San Antonio. The Eagle generally keeps pretty close to schedule, and even if it were four or five hours late, the Sunset would probably be even later still. I don't know the last time 1 arrived in SAS before 21 (except in situations where 21 was annulled at Fort Worth due to a derailment or other disruption), but it probably hasn't happened this year.

Eastbound, Amtrak no longer will hold 22 past its departure time (unless 2 is within spitting distance of the station), and instead will add the protect cars from San Antonio to the train, making the Sunset/Eagle cars the new protect cars in SAS.

Where the bustitution will occur depends on how late the Sunset is at El Paso. If it's "kinda" late (I think around 3 hours), they'll bustitute ELP-SAS. If it's later than that, and the buses won't get to SAS before 8:00 AM, then they'll bustitute ELP-FTW. Somehow, I escaped the overnight motorcoach ride, and was bustituted SAS-DAL in May. I don't know why that's not one of the options listed in the recent announcement, but maybe in my case (where apparently the policy used to be to hold 22 up to 2 hours) they thought we'd make it, but got delayed more past El Paso, and decided not to hold 22 any longer.

Areas (geographic) of concern for us are the "black hole" between El Paso and Tucson and another drop off of a cliff between Palm Springs and Colton.
In Texas our biggest woes are in the Houston to Beaumont corridor.
Union Pacific has claimed recently to have reduced traffic through contacts with its customers and referral to other transportation modes or less congested routes of its own.
The Austin Subdivision was the first to see some relief, to 21 and 22's benefit, and watching No. 1 today out of San Antonio, he seems to be getting a better run than in the past. Informed that 50 percent of the sidings were empty between San Antonio and El Paso, and that hasn't occurred in ages. Will track No. 1 for results.
We'll have to wait and look for some consistency if this holds true.
Right now it is a crapshoot for 421 connections, as it has been for a long time.

Perhaps Amtrak should consider splitting the Eagle the way that MoPac used to.

In other words, split the train at Dallas with a section going to San Antonio and another section going west from Dallas along the former T&P/MoPac line (which ironically sees only 12 trains a day from UP)...and make the connection with the Sunset at El Paso.

CNJ wrote:Perhaps Amtrak should consider splitting the Eagle the way that MoPac used to.

In other words, split the train at Dallas with a section going to San Antonio and another section going west from Dallas along the former T&P/MoPac line (which ironically sees only 12 trains a day from UP)...and make the connection with the Sunset at El Paso.

I think part of their "Market-Based Network Analysis" included a reroute of either the Eagle or the Sunset (or maybe both) via that line. I'd have to look at an old map of the proposed changes (which I don't have), but I think they wanted to move the Sunset north a bit, which would save a bunch of time across Texas.

However, adding a route like that would be considered expansion, which is out of the question at this point, due to the terms of the DOT loan. Additionally, one would have to consider the condition of the line, and the availability of station facilities along the route.

RMadisonWI wrote:

CNJ wrote:Perhaps Amtrak should consider splitting the Eagle the way that MoPac used to.

In other words, split the train at Dallas with a section going to San Antonio and another section going west from Dallas along the former T&P/MoPac line (which ironically sees only 12 trains a day from UP)...and make the connection with the Sunset at El Paso.

I think part of their "Market-Based Network Analysis" included a reroute of either the Eagle or the Sunset (or maybe both) via that line. I'd have to look at an old map of the proposed changes (which I don't have), but I think they wanted to move the Sunset north a bit, which would save a bunch of time across Texas.

However, adding a route like that would be considered expansion, which is out of the question at this point, due to the terms of the DOT loan. Additionally, one would have to consider the condition of the line, and the availability of station facilities along the route.

From what I have seen the line appears to be in good shape. Moreover, many of the former MoPac stations are still standing. I believe there may be an issue of the line operating under CTC, but I am not too clear on this issue. Perhaps any of our other contributors could enlighten me more.

A benefit of using this route would be service would be provided to some of the largest cities in West Texas.

A personal benefit for me would be that it would bring Amtrak service to within 80 miles of my home, with the Eagle making a stop in Abilene.

what cities does this line go threw? and what passenger train used to run on it?

The network plan was to reroute the sunset from Houston up to Dallas , then across to El Paso . i cant recall if the Eagle was to continue down to San Antonio , I think the idea was to have a new train form Dallas down through San antonio , and on into Northern Mexico .

boyishcolt wrote:what cities does this line go threw? and what passenger train used to run on it?

The cities served would be Midland, Odessa, Sweetwater and Abilene Texas.

The trains that ran here was the El Paso section of Missouri Pacific's Eagle (St. Louis/Dallas/El Paso). The Eagle split at Dallas with the other section continuing down to San Antonio.

Back in the 1950's Pensylvania and MoPac offered through sleeper service from New York (Pennsy's Penn Texas) connecting with the Eagle (MoPac).

Hope this info is of help.

Regards....

yes it does help, thank you
But was there at any time another track that ran more or less, that ran east and west from coast to coast that the Sunset could use all or in Part?

doubtful. The old EP&SW was removed many years ago.
As to the reroute via the T&P:

A good idea, but some obstacles are in the way:

1. Toyah Canyon is notorious for flooding and washouts, almost on an annual basis
2. Has anyone considered the additional time to get the train back on the Sunset Route around Houston. I can tell you from past experience that the least time expended would be an additional 5 hours. That, coupled with the 60 MPH limit on most of the T&P would virtually kill this route's chances for being a "faster" route.
3. UP, according to dispatcher freinds, runs considerably more traffic on this line than 12 trains every 24 hours. Couple that to the fact that the west end is still ABS-TWC and you have bottleneck time all over again.
4. New expenditures for new crewbases, relocating crews from existing crewbases and infrastructure improvements necessary to operate passenger trains.
5. During reroutes over this railroad, the time delays were horrendous.
6. The idea is great for dreamers, and if significant obstacles were overcome it could be a good move, but either route still makes the Sunset deal with the UP.

Well I was thinking mainly in terms of runing just the Eagle over the T&P and having it meet up with its San Antonio section in Dallas.....just as MoPac used to do.

I would not reroute the Sunset at all.

That's cool....but what about Houston and the east? A substantial portion of this train's business is at Houston and New Orleans, so something would need to be done to accomodate that section of the run.
Personally, turning the train at NOL is preferable to running it through to ORL. Running a separate train NOL-ORL, SFD or MIA would be, to me, a smart move. Just curious if anyone gave that any thought?