Viewliner II Delivery/Production

markhb wrote:I got the impression that the Phase III stripes will go with "Amtrak America" as their new LD branding. That correlates with a likely expansion of local brandings for the newly state-supported services, plus Acela and NER.

Not gonna work well if one day an Amfleet II is on an "Amtrak America" long distance train and the next it's on the Maple Leaf or Pennsylvanian. Same deal with the Viewliners if they end up on trains like 66/67 (former Twilight Shoreliner). Amtrak finally had a nice, consistent appearance fleet-wide aside from the separate state supported services, and I think this will only make the trains look rattier if they end up mixing different color schemes.

Maybe they will leave the coach amfleet IIs alone and just make the lounge amfleet II in to a transition car.

ApproachMedium wrote:Maybe they will leave the coach amfleet IIs alone and just make the lounge amfleet II in to a transition car.

I doubt they thought it through that far but I will say, it could be done well if they had a completely separate equipment pool and you didn't get cars from "Amtrak America" mixed in with Regional trains any more than you have Talgos intermixed with Acela Express cars. But since Amfleet I's, Amfleet II's, and Viewliners will all be used for both state sponsored/medium distance service and long distance services, I doubt it's practical to maintain a separate pool without cross-contamination if you will. Bottom line, I guess Amtrak doesn't care that much about uniformity in the consists (even though they'll probably photoshop the photos on the timetables/brochures to make the trains look clean and uniform!)

If they have two paint schemes then it is inevitable that there will be mixed consists. But Phase IV was introduced nearly 20 years ago, so maybe it is time for a change.
And if the V-Is are repainted as they are rebuilt, and if V-II coaches are eventually built in the new scheme, then eventually they will have matching (and all-Viewliner) LD consists.
I also like that the stripes are narrower in the new version of Phase III, it shows off more stainless steel, which I think looks cleaner and more modern.

Here's my big question:
Will the full baggage cars be in Phase III or Phase IV?
If Phase III is only gonna be used for single level cars, and full bags will be used mostly on Superliner trains, then it would make sense for them to be in Phase IV to match the Superliners.

The return of phase III is interesting choise,Ph IV shows more stainless,the phase V(blue wave/blob)has been
continued on the ACS-64's .
IF the Superliners retain the Ph IV paint,the Viewliner II bags assigned to the west,should be in Ph IV paint from the factory
Suspect the Ph III(b) paint will wander system wide,as did the Ph V paint did.

Amtrak With the launch of our new single-level long distance equipment – the “Viewliner II”, we are also launching Amtrak America, a brand that will encompass all that is great about our ong-haul trains, including those with sleeper class service. Our route brands will continue, and this brand will make the conversation and overall service offerings clear to our customers and stakeholders.

Amtrak America will utilize our Phase Three striping on the single-level long distance cars as a tribute to our heritage. The first cars released from production will also carry our heritage logo in honor of our past. Our current logo will return on the standard production cars.
Like · Reply · 44 · 17 hours ago

The above is from Amtrak's Facebook page. After reading it I am guessing only these first cars will be phase III and the rest will be the current scheme.

Ahh, so its like with the ACS-64's where the first few had different paint showing off the builders and such, and the newer ones have the "regular" paint scheme. I love phase III but honestly I wouldn't want to see those mismatched consists again since it took so long to get where we are now.

Sounds more like all of the new cars will have Phase III and Amtrak America, but only the first few will have the pointless arrow.

ns3010 wrote:Sounds more like all of the new cars will have Phase III and Amtrak America, but only the first few will have the pointless arrow.

That's my take. My personal opinion is that since it took Amtrak probably at least 15 years after Phase IV first appeared on the Superliner II's to get the entire fleet into a professional looking, uniform color scheme it's best not to mess with it. But since a good thing couldn't last forever I guess, expect to see mismatched consists for at least the next decade.

Yeah it seems like an entirely unnecessary branding exercise that's only going to confuse people.

You've got Amtrak.

You've got some premium trains that are worth paying much higher prices for . Those are known as Acela. If you want to introduce another premium train, give it another name. But creating names just to give everything a special name (when these dang trains already mostly have names like Chief, Zephyr, and Limited) is just confusing. Especially when said non-special trains are mostly one/day and reasonably booked up. Why waste the effort branding and marketing these trains unless you're going to introduce 3x/day service that needs filled up?

Tadman wrote:Yeah it seems like an entirely unnecessary branding exercise that's only going to confuse people.
You've got some premium trains that are worth paying much higher prices for . Those are known as Acela. If you want to introduce another premium train, give it another name. But creating names just to give everything a special name (when these dang trains already mostly have names like Chief, Zephyr, and Limited) is just confusing. Especially when said non-special trains are mostly one/day and reasonably booked up. Why waste the effort branding and marketing these trains unless you're going to introduce 3x/day service that needs filled up?

All LD trains need more passengers, that's why each are named and marketed individually. The Texas Eagle has its own web site, believe it or not.

electricron wrote:

Tadman wrote:Yeah it seems like an entirely unnecessary branding exercise that's only going to confuse people.
You've got some premium trains that are worth paying much higher prices for . Those are known as Acela. If you want to introduce another premium train, give it another name. But creating names just to give everything a special name (when these dang trains already mostly have names like Chief, Zephyr, and Limited) is just confusing. Especially when said non-special trains are mostly one/day and reasonably booked up. Why waste the effort branding and marketing these trains unless you're going to introduce 3x/day service that needs filled up?

All LD trains need more passengers, that's why each are named and marketed individually. The Texas Eagle has its own web site, believe it or not.

The load factors seemed pretty good on my cross-country train journey. Amtrak's LD trains need more equipment if they're gonna try to get more passengers. The Texas Eagle is down to a single P42, no baggage car, and typically a 6 or 7 car Superliner consist I believe. Now yes, I suppose the eastern LD routes will have a small bump in capacity with the new Viewliners. Not so for the Superliner routes, however.

Matt Johnson wrote:The load factors seemed pretty good on my cross-country train journey. Amtrak's LD trains need more equipment if they're gonna try to get more passengers. The Texas Eagle is down to a single P42, no baggage car, and typically a 6 or 7 car Superliner consist I believe. Now yes, I suppose the eastern LD routes will have a small bump in capacity with the new Viewliners. Not so for the Superliner routes, however.

Most LD Superliner routes can carry many more passengers with the equipment they have presently, simply by reselling the same seats and sleeping cabins more than once on a trip, the length of the trip makes that possible. As riders get off in Memphis, Dallas, Denver, Kansas City, or St. Paul more riders can get on. Only half the riders on the LD trains get on of off at the terminating stations, far less than that ride the entire way.
A typical consist for the Texas Eagle is:
1 P42 Locomotive
1 Transition Sleeper
1 Sleeper
1 Diner Lite
1 Lounge
2 Coaches
The other typical consist os:
Typical consist above +
1 Coach (additional)
1 Sleeper (additional)
The additional Coach and Sleeper interlined with the Sunset Limited thrice a week.

A typical Superliner LD coach has 75 seats, a typical Amfleet II coach has 59 seats, a difference of 16 seats per car. 4 Superliner coaches is equivalent to 5 Amfleet II coaches. Math: 4 x 75 = 300, 5 x 59 = 295....
A typical Superliner sleeper has capacity for 44, a typical Viewliner sleeper has capacity for 30, a difference of 14 per car. 2 Superliner sleepers is equivalent to 3 Viewliner sleepers. Math: 2 x 44 = 88, 3 x 30 = 90.....
For the typical Eagle, the sleeper capacity is 64, about the same as a Viewliner train with two sleepers. Math: 44 (Sleeper) + 20 (10 Roomettes on Transition) = 64, 2 x 30 = 60.
You just don't need as long a train with Superliners to reach the same capacity as Viewliners and Amfleet IIs.

Additionally, the entire way from Chicago to LA requires three nights, meaning the additional sleeper can potentially be booked three times for each run, and six times for each round trip. The three other LD trains from Chicago west require two nights, meaning they could potentially be booked twice for each run, and four times for each round trip. Each coach seat could be rebooked even more often. All Viewliner trips require just one night for each run, the likelihood they will be rebooked on each run is less - but not impossible. Of course, they are still bookable every night they are in service.

Matt Johnson wrote:

electricron wrote:

Tadman wrote:Yeah it seems like an entirely unnecessary branding exercise that's only going to confuse people.
You've got some premium trains that are worth paying much higher prices for . Those are known as Acela. If you want to introduce another premium train, give it another name. But creating names just to give everything a special name (when these dang trains already mostly have names like Chief, Zephyr, and Limited) is just confusing. Especially when said non-special trains are mostly one/day and reasonably booked up. Why waste the effort branding and marketing these trains unless you're going to introduce 3x/day service that needs filled up?

All LD trains need more passengers, that's why each are named and marketed individually. The Texas Eagle has its own web site, believe it or not.

The load factors seemed pretty good on my cross-country train journey. Amtrak's LD trains need more equipment if they're gonna try to get more passengers. The Texas Eagle is down to a single P42, no baggage car, and typically a 6 or 7 car Superliner consist I believe. Now yes, I suppose the eastern LD routes will have a small bump in capacity with the new Viewliners. Not so for the Superliner routes, however.

For the moderators, a question. What does ANY of this have to do with Viewliner II Delivery or Production seems as if we've been blown off-topic.

Greg Moore wrote:

Matt Johnson wrote:

electricron wrote:

Tadman wrote:Yeah it seems like an entirely unnecessary branding exercise that's only going to confuse people.
You've got some premium trains that are worth paying much higher prices for . Those are known as Acela. If you want to introduce another premium train, give it another name. But creating names just to give everything a special name (when these dang trains already mostly have names like Chief, Zephyr, and Limited) is just confusing. Especially when said non-special trains are mostly one/day and reasonably booked up. Why waste the effort branding and marketing these trains unless you're going to introduce 3x/day service that needs filled up?

All LD trains need more passengers, that's why each are named and marketed individually. The Texas Eagle has its own web site, believe it or not.

The load factors seemed pretty good on my cross-country train journey. Amtrak's LD trains need more equipment if they're gonna try to get more passengers. The Texas Eagle is down to a single P42, no baggage car, and typically a 6 or 7 car Superliner consist I believe. Now yes, I suppose the eastern LD routes will have a small bump in capacity with the new Viewliners. Not so for the Superliner routes, however.

For the moderators, a question. What does ANY of this have to do with Viewliner II Delivery or Production seems as if we've been blown off-topic.

I agree. While everyone is mumbling about branding, pointless arrows and load factors, I'll post this vague article which happens to do with the delivery...I think.


Amtrak to add new cars to Silver Star, serving Tampa

http://tbo.com/news/business/amtrak-to- ... -20131024/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

TAMPA — Amtrak will add new sleeper, diner and baggage-crew dormitory cars on the Silver Star’s New York-Tampa-Miami route by 2015, with some equipment possibly entering service as early as next summer.



Amtrak officials said Thursday the first units of 130 single-level long-distance passenger rail cars are nearing completion and will begin testing this winter.



The $298.1 million order with CAF USA’s Elmira, N.Y., plant will add 25 sleeping cars, 25 diners, 25 baggage/dormitory and 55 baggage cars to Eastern United States routes.



The purchase is a boost for Amtrak’s long-distance concept, which posted a 27 percent nationwide ridership gain since 2006 to 4.8 million passengers in fiscal 2013, when Amtrak reported a record 31.6 million passengers nationwide.



“The long-distance routes represent the most attractive business improvement opportunity for Amtrak and the new equipment will help us achieve cost reductions, more efficiency, revenue growth and better service,” Amtrak board member Tom Carper said in a release.



Amtrak ridership on nearly all long-distance trains was ahead of last August, the railroad’s latest report said.