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Updates, Gas leaks, Headlights, Restricted Speed

Discussion of the past and present operations of the Long Island Rail Road.

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Updates, Gas leaks, Headlights, Restricted Speed

  by Head-end View
 
Remember the 4 hour delay in March when an M-7 broke down near Woodside? An article in Newsday (5/26 page-A46) said the cause was a chafed wire that shorted out. Same wire now is now being inspected on the whole fleet and Bombardier is correcting the problem.

I took a trip to Manhattan today and (some days you win!) got old trains in both directions. But a few snags developed...........We were held for 11 minutes at Mineola Sta. (Train 1635) due to a supposed gas leak at Merillon Ave. When we finally proceeded there was no police, fire dept. or Keyspan activity anywhere around that area (?) Hmmm.........

On the return trip (Train 1708) a special holiday weekend express train, (Carle Place the first stop east of Jamaica) I thought I lucked out. An M-3 on the head-end, engineer kept the cab door closed and I figured it would be a blast flying right thru New Hyde Pk. and Mineola, right?

WRONG! The train lost its headlights and we were slow from Hillside Facility on east. Restricted speed over all those crossings in New Hyde Park and Mineola.................. :( What a drag! Ruined the whole ride. At least the conductor was good enough to make a P.A. annoucement explaining the reason for the slow speed. Good man.

Which brings us to today's question about the rulebook: Why does a headlight failure require restricted speed over protected crossings (bells, lights, gates) in daylight when the train's horn is operating normally? I could understand the need to slow down if the crossings were UNprotected and maybe at night or if the horn failed too. But when the gates are down and the horn is sounding, does it really matter about the headlights? The public is already warned. Why do we need to delay thousands of people on the affected train and following trains, under these circumstances? It seems to me some revision of the rules on this topic are in order. What's the story on this, guys?

Don't misunderstand; I am actually a safety fanatic. But I think in some cases like this one, too much redundancy can be counter-productive. So much for trying to enjoy the holiday weekend express!............. :(
Last edited by Head-end View on Fri May 27, 2005 6:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Re: Updates, Gas leaks, Headlights, Restricted Speed

  by jg greenwood
 
Head-end View wrote:Remember the 4 hour delay in March when an M-7 broke down near Woodside? An article in Newsday (5/26 page-A46) said the cause was a chafed wire that shorted out. Same wire now is now being inspected on the whole fleet and Bombardier is correcting the problem.

I took a trip to Manhattan today and (some days you win!) got old trains in both directions. But a few snags developed...........We were held for 11 minutes at Mineola Sta. (Train 1635) due to a supposed gas leak at Merillon Ave. When we finally proceeded there was no police, fire dept. or Keyspan activity anywhere around that area (?) Hmmm.........

On the return trip (Train 1708) a special holiday weekend express train, (Carle Place the first stop east of Jamaica) I thought I lucked out. An M-3 on the head-end, engineer kept the cab door closed and I figured it would be a blast flying right thru New Hyde Pk. and Mineola, right?

WRONG! The train lost its headlights and we were slow from Hillside Facility on east. Restricted speed over all those crossings in New Hyde Park and Mineola.................. :( What a drag! Ruined the whole ride. At least the conductor was good enough to make a P.A. annoucement explaining the reason for the slow speed. Good man.

Which brings us to today's question about the rulebook: Why does a headlight failure require restricted speed over protected crossings (bells, lights, gates) in daylight when the train's horn is operating normally? I could understand the need to slow down if the crossings were UNprotected and maybe at night or if the horn failed too. But when the gates are down and the horn is sounding, does it really matter about the headlights? The public is already warned. Why do we need to delay thousands of people on the affected train and following trains, under these circumstances? It seems to me some revision of the rules on this topic are in order. What's the story on this, guys?

Don't misunderstand; I am actually a safety fanatic. But I think in some cases like this one, too much redundancy can be counter-productive. So much for trying to enjoy the holiday weekend express!............. :(
Complete ditchlite failure also requires speed not to exceed 20-mph over all crossings.

Re: Updates, Gas leaks, Headlights, Restricted Speed

  by bluebelly
 
Head-end View wrote:
Which brings us to today's question about the rulebook: Why does a headlight failure require restricted speed over protected crossings (bells, lights, gates) in daylight when the train's horn is operating normally? I could understand the need to slow down if the crossings were UNprotected and maybe at night or if the horn failed too. But when the gates are down and the horn is sounding, does it really matter about the headlights? The public is already warned. Why do we need to delay thousands of people on the affected train and following trains, under these circumstances? It seems to me some revision of the rules on this topic are in order. What's the story on this, guys?...
:(

The simple answer: F.R.A

  by DutchRailnut
 
Speeds above 20 MPH require 3 lights, a headlight and two auxililary lights.
no exclusion for day or night.
see:
Code: Select all
[Title 49, Volume 4]
[Revised as of October 1, 2003]
From the U.S. Government Printing Office via GPO Access
[CITE: 49CFR229.125]

[Page 320-321]
 
                        TITLE 49--TRANSPORTATION
 
       CHAPTER II--FEDERAL RAILROAD ADMINISTRATION, DEPARTMENT OF 
                             TRANSPORTATION
 
PART 229--RAILROAD LOCOMOTIVE SAFETY STANDARDS--Table of Contents
 
                     Subpart C--Safety Requirements
 
Sec. 229.125  Headlights and auxiliary lights.

    (a) Each lead locomotive used in road service shall have a headlight 
that produces a peak intensity of at least 200,000 candela. If a 
locomotive or locomotive consist in road service is regularly required 
to run backward for any portion of its trip other than to pick up a 
detached portion of its train or to make terminal movements, it shall 
also have on its rear a headlight that produces at least 200,000 
candela. Each headlight shall be arranged to illuminate a person at 
least 800 feet ahead and in front of the headlight. For purposes of this 
section, a headlight shall be comprised of either one or two lamps.
    (1) If a locomotive is equipped with a single lamp headlight, the 
single lamp shall produce a peak intensity of at least 200,000 candela. 
The following meet the standard set forth in this paragraph (a)(1): a 
single PAR-56, 200-watt, 30-volt lamp; or a lamp of equivalent design 
and intensity.
    (2) If a locomotive is equipped with a dual-lamp headlight, a peak 
intensity of 200,000 candela shall be produced by the headlight based 
either on a single lamp capable of individually producing the required 
peak intensity or on the candela produced by the headlight with both 
lamps illuminated. If both lamps are needed to produce the required peak 
intensity, then both lamps in the headlight shall be operational. The 
following meet the standard set forth in this paragraph (a)(2): a single 
PAR-56, 200-watt, 30-volt lamp; two operative PAR-56, 350-watt, 75-volt 
lamps; or a lamp(s) of equivalent design and intensity.
    (b) Each locomotive or locomotive consist used in yard service shall 
have two headlights, one located on the front of the locomotive or 
locomotive consist and one on its rear. Each headlight shall produce at 
least 60,000 candela and shall be arranged to illuminate a person at 
least 300 feet ahead and in front of the headlight.
    (c) Headlights shall be provided with a device to dim the light.
    (d) Effective December 31, 1997, each lead locomotive operated at a 
speed greater than 20 miles per hour over one or more public highway-
rail crossings shall be equipped with operative auxiliary lights, in 
addition to the headlight required by paragraph (a) or (b) of this 
section. A locomotive equipped on March 6, 1996 with auxiliary lights in 
conformance with Sec. 229.133 shall be deemed to conform to this section 
until March 6, 2000. All locomotives in compliance with Sec. 229.133(c) 
shall be deemed to conform to this section. Auxiliary lights shall be 
composed as follows:
    (1) Two white auxiliary lights shall be placed at the front of the 
locomotive to form a triangle with the headlight.
    (i) The auxiliary lights shall be at least 36 inches above the top 
of the rail, except on MU locomotives and control cab locomotives where 
such placement would compromise the integrity of the car body or be 
otherwise impractical. Auxiliary lights on such MU locomotives and 
control cab locomotives shall be at least 24 inches above the top of the 
rail.
    (ii) The auxiliary lights shall be spaced at least 36 inches apart 
if the vertical distance from the headlight to the horizontal axis of 
the auxiliary lights is 60 inches or more.

[[Page 321]]

    (iii) The auxiliary lights shall be spaced at least 60 inches apart 
if the vertical distance from the headlight to the horizontal axis of 
the auxiliary lights is less than 60 inches.
    (2) Each auxiliary light shall produce a peak intensity of at least 
200,000 candela or shall produce at least 3,000 candela at an angle of 
7.5 degrees and 400 candela at an angle of 20 degrees from the 
centerline of the locomotive when the light is aimed parallel to the 
tracks. Any of the following meet the standard set forth in this 
paragraph (d)(2): a PAR-56, 200-watt, 30-volt lamp; a PAR-56, 350-watt, 
75-volt lamp; or a lamp of equivalent design and intensity.
    (3) The auxiliary lights shall be focused horizontally within 15 
degrees of the longitudinal centerline of the locomotive.
    (e) Auxiliary lights required by paragraph (d) of this section may 
be arranged
    (1) to burn steadily or
    (2) flash on approach to a crossing.
    If the auxiliary lights are arranged to flash;
    (i) they shall flash alternately at a rate of at least 40 flashes 
per minute and at most 180 flashes per minute,
    (ii) the railroad's operating rules shall set a standard procedure 
for use of flashing lights at public highway-rail grade crossings, and
    (iii) the flashing feature may be activated automatically, but shall 
be capable of manual activation and deactivation by the locomotive 
engineer.
    (f) Auxiliary lights required by paragraph (d) of this section shall 
be continuously illuminated immediately prior to and during movement of 
the locomotive, except as provided by railroad operating rules, 
timetable or special instructions, unless such exception is disapproved 
by FRA. A railroad may except use of auxiliary lights at a specific 
public highway-rail grade crossing by designating that exception in the 
railroad's operating rules, timetable, or a special order. Any exception 
from use of auxiliary lights at a specific public grade crossing can be 
disapproved for a stated cause by FRA's Associate Administrator for 
Safety or any one of FRA's Regional Administrators, after investigation 
by FRA and opportunity for response from the railroad.
    (g) Movement of locomotives with defective auxiliary lights.
    (1) A lead locomotive with only one failed auxiliary light must be 
repaired or switched to a trailing position before departure from the 
place where an initial terminal inspection is required for that train.
    (2) A locomotive with only one auxiliary light that has failed after 
departure from an initial terminal, must be repaired not later than the 
next calendar inspection required by Sec. 229.21.
    (3) A lead locomotive with two failed auxiliary lights may only 
proceed to the next place where repairs can be made. This movement must 
be consistent with Sec. 229.9.
    (h) Any locomotive subject to Part 229, that was built before 
December 31, 1948, and that is not used regularly in commuter or 
intercity passenger service, shall be considered historic equipment and 
excepted from the requirements of paragraphs (d) through (h) of this 
section.

[45 FR 21109, Mar. 31, 1980, as amended at 61 FR 8887, Mar. 6, 1996; 68 
FR 49717, Aug. 19, 2003]

  by Long Island 7285
 
and in another part of that section of the CFR's the FRA states that all historic equpt built before 1945 or 1955 (some where around there) are NOT rqeuired to have traingle lights by federal law. However if the railroad that the trains are running on require the triangle lights in thre operating rules and instrctions then they are mandatory. unless the railroad in mention makes an arangement or agreement with the operating of historic equipment.

just thout that would be of intrest so some.

Chafed wire

  by N340SG
 
Same wire now is now being inspected on the whole fleet and Bombardier is correcting the problem.
Yes, inspections have begun on this. The wiring in question is up above a trough cover. It cannot be readily inspected. This situation will not be detected on an ordinary PI. The trough cover has to be unbolted and dropped to inspect and add additional protection to the wiring harness.

The resultant problem on this train was that this situation led to an Emergency Relay coil surge protector shorting out, thereby continually tripping a circuit breaker from anywhere keyed in because it is a trainlined circuit.
To refresh the memory, the only way to get around that short would have been to retract coupler faces, isolating the short to one pair of cars.
It turned out the short was in the last pair of the consist.

Tom

  by SeldenJrFireman
 
Head-end,

Headlights make the front of a train more visible. You will hear the horn, but it is much better to see the lights.


Why do you think Fire trucks have so many flashing red lights?

1) Makes the truck more visible than it already is.
2) get people's attention so they know it is around them
3) Scene safety.

Most of the lights on a Fire truck are either facing the front or rear, with a few on the side. Trains have bright headlights in the front with marker lights in the back.

This is my take on it, Bad Neighbor can probably fill in the blank spots I left.

Mike

FRA Rules & Fire Trucks

  by Head-end View
 
Dutch: Thanks for that copy of the FRA Rules. Now let me get this straight: The people who say that the train with an operating horn, but no headlights needs to slow to 20 MPH at a crossing protected by lights/gates/bells are the same people who have mandated that new trains should be built so passengers can't see out the front. O-k-a-y! Now I'm starting to get a picture of the FRA bureaucrat mentality. It might be time for an FRA reality check....... :wink:

Selden, Jr: Thanks for that comparison of trains and emergency vehicles. Actually I'm kind of familiar with fire truck warning devices having been an engine and tower-ladder chauffeur for many years. (Chuckle!) If drivers on the road had gates blocking the road so they couldn't cross in front of oncoming fire trucks, maybe we wouldn't need so many lights and audible devices on our trucks. We should look into that: gates at every major intersection that would drop when fire trucks approach. Hmmmm........ :-)

  by jayrmli
 
Not everyone can hear the horn. Deaf people wouldn't stand a chance.

It all comes down to legal stuff. If a train with no headlights operated at MAS and killed someone, the lawyers would have a field day.

Jay

  by DutchRailnut
 
Todays super insulated cars and 500 watt sound systems don't help motorist either.
The railroads fully agreed to these FRA rules going in effect and to the studies done.

  by Clemuel
 
The FRA never mandated that new cars be built so that passengers cannot see out of the front, though there is a requirement for increased crash protection for the motorman (engineer on LIRR).

The LIRR has several waivers for the headlight stuff, however, permit better operation than is mandated by the FRA. These were granted partly due to our level of crossing protection.

Clem

  by Head-end View
 
Thanks Clem; that's interesting about the waivers for higher level crossing protection. Exactly my point, in fact. :-D

Re: the increased level of structural integrity required in new trains: Before you became active in this forum other railroaders on here explained that FRA had supposedly also mandated that there be no glass on the front wall of the train facing the passengers. And that was why the partition separating the cab from the passsenger area could not have windows for us to look all the way thru. Though no one ever seemed to know why the M-7 cab door does have a window in it. Some suggested maybe LIRR got a waiver for that window.

We had many discussions about this a year or two ago. Did I misunderstand or was that information not correct?

  by DutchRailnut
 
first Waivers are only temporary ways of bending the rules.
so Waivers are only in effect till a permanent solution is found, usualy for 1 ir 2 years.
The M7 cab door has no glass in it its a lexan panel and is shatter proof.
passengers are not allowed to be exposed to window glazing.
the M3 has lexan in the barrel door.
the M7 has FRA glazing in both engineers and firemans side cab windows.
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