Unoccupied engines? & British engines - no lights/bell

I heard there is a "railroad" with completely fenced-off track on which an unoccupied engine pulls a train to the other end and back. No grade crossings.

Is this true?

Did British engines travel down their tracks with no headlights?
In photos I can find no headlights!

Also, when a powerful new British engine arrived in the US for display, (1939 World's Fair?) and WWII broke out, they kepthengine here for the duration of the warather than risk it being sunk on the way back. It had to be outfitted with a headlight and bell to be put into service here.

Thank you,

i often wondered about british engines headlights too . perhaps a british reader can enlighten us .

GOLDEN-ARM wrote:(YAWN)

I realized my questions were off topic on your post: WRECK OF REMOTES...

So I puthem here.

Now you follow me here.

Unable to answer the questions, ARM?!!

Imagine, all of those ships, tanks, trucks, planes, subs, locomotives, equipment and men, sent to the bottom of the Atlantic, during the war. Thankfully, the U.S. Government had the presence of mind, to "protect" that lonely locomotive, from a fate, being suffered, by all of those things, and the Brave Men, who gave their all, for the rest of us. That's One Special Locomotive..........

BE SURE TO SAY THANKS, TO A COMBAT VET. SOME GAVE ALL, ALL GAVE SOME

GOLDEN-ARM wrote: Imagine, all of those ships, tanks, trucks, planes, subs, locomotives, equipment and men, sent to the bottom of the Atlantic, during the war. Thankfully, the U.S. Government had the presence of mind, to "protect" that lonely locomotive, from a fate, being suffered, by all of those things, and the Brave Men, who gave their all, for the rest of us. That's One Special Locomotive..........

That was their rationale in not sending it back: Put ito use here
rather than risk losing it. We certainly needed it here.

GOLDEN-ARM wrote:BE SURE TO SAY THANKS, TO A COMBAT VET. SOME GAVE ALL, ALL GAVE SOME

Well said! I'll remember that.
Thanks.

Well, since David Benton asked nicely about it, and Mr Gift seems to be behaving himself , here's a snippet from a recent exchange on Trains.com http://www.trains.com/TRC/CS/forums/868 ... wPost.aspx:

As a driver on British Railways I can tell you that the front lights on train are not for the driver to see with but so that the train can be seen by workers on the track. In steam days oil lamps were used as markers and the position of these on the front of the locomotive indicated to signalmen what class of train it was, for example, a lamp above each buffer signified an express passenger train. Modern trains are being fitted with brighter headlights but it is still not easy to see the track ahead with them. Remember that all track in Britain must, by law, be fenced so the chances of people or animals straying onto the line is considerably less than in the U.S.

I very much appreciate these answers that I'm reading. But do you mean to say that British steam locomotives were operated without the engineer being able to see far down the track? The thought of running at speed in the dark just sends shivvers up my spine, fences or no fences! I never assumed that headlights on American locomotives were simply to see in time to stop before striking the errant cow; I assumed they were also a warning to whatever is up ahead that a locomotive is approaching. In any event, you cleared up the mystery of a lifetime and gave me added reason to admire the courage of British engine drivers.

I've been on the footplate now for 37 years and have never hit anything yet (apart from one suicide) and have no qualms about driving trains at 100mph in total darkness as long as I can see the signals. In fog or poor visibility we have the Automatic Warning System which rings a bell in the cab 200yds before a signal displaying a green (clear) aspect or causes a horn to sound in the cab if the signal is displaying a restrictive aspect (double yellow, single yellow or red). The horn continues to sound until the driver presses and releases a button on the control desk. If the button is not pressed and released in about 7 seconds, power is automatically cut off and an emergecy brake application initiated. The train must come to a stop then before the brakes can be released.

I dunno, still sounds like a bit of a crock to me...

Sir Ray wrote:Well, since David Benton asked nicely about it, and Mr Gift seems to be behaving himself

Wuh?
I asked nicely!
How have I ever misbehaved?! (Well, when I realized I was diverting off topic I brought it here.)

As a driver on British Railways I can tell you that the front lights on train are not for the driver to see with but so that the train can be seen by workers on the track. In steam days oil lamps were used as markers and the position of these on the front of the locomotive indicated to signalmen what class of train it was, for example, a lamp above each buffer signified an express passenger train. Modern trains are being fitted with brighter headlights but it is still not easy to see the track ahead with them. Remember that all track in Britain must, by law, be fenced so the chances of people or animals straying onto the line is considerably less than in the U.S.

I very much appreciate these answers that I'm reading. But do you mean to say that British steam locomotives were operated without the engineer being able to see far down the track? The thought of running at speed in the dark just sends shivvers up my spine, fences or no fences! I never assumed that headlights on American locomotives were simply to see in time to stop before striking the errant cow; I assumed they were also a warning to whatever is up ahead that a locomotive is approaching. In any event, you cleared up the mystery of a lifetime and gave me added reason to admire the courage of British engine drivers.

I've been on the footplate now for 37 years and have never hit anything yet (apart from one suicide) and have no qualms about driving trains at 100mph in total darkness as long as I can see the signals. In fog or poor visibility we have the Automatic Warning System which rings a bell in the cab 200yds before a signal displaying a green (clear) aspect or causes a horn to sound in the cab if the signal is displaying a restrictive aspect (double yellow, single yellow or red). The horn continues to sound until the driver presses and releases a button on the control desk. If the button is not pressed and released in about 7 seconds, power is automatically cut off and an emergecy brake application initiated. The train must come to a stop then before the brakes can be released.

Sir Ray wrote:I dunno, still sounds like a bit of a crock to me...

I cannot believe the British were so cheap as to not install powerful headlights on their locomotives.
What aboutrees falling across the track? Or other objects on or fouling the track?

I presume by the time they appeared in headlights, it would be too late to stop in time.

But I'd want to at least be able to see them and begin brake application as early as possible and get myself prepared for it.
Hard to believe.

Robert Gift wrote:

Sir Ray wrote:Well, since David Benton asked nicely about it, and Mr Gift seems to be behaving himself

Wuh?
I asked nicely!
How have I ever misbehaved?! (Well, when I realized I was diverting off topic I brought it here.)

Well, seems people were treating you as a troll around these parts (particularly the 'Yawn' response'), and while I wanted to give some info, I didn't feel like being 'pwned' (yeah, I know that's so 1999). Since Dave Benton is a long standing member of this board, responding to him was safe. Sorry for the paranoia, been posting on Usenet too much recently I guess (where everyone's either your enemy, or a dog )

I cannot believe the British were so cheap as to not install powerful headlights on their locomotives.
What aboutrees falling across the track? Or other objects on or fouling the track?
I presume by the time they appeared in headlights, it would be too late to stop in time.
But I'd want to at least be able to see them and begin brake application as early as possible and get myself prepared for it.
Hard to believe.

Hence my 'crock' line, because as we all know fences are impregnable and impossible to circumvent, particularly ones in remote moors and fens which consist of 4 strands of wire strung from thin posts. And of course motor vehicles never fall from bridges onto tracks, nor do hooligans (either the football or non-football kinds) throw large objects onto the tracks.
Look, obviously the engineer/train driver who wrote the responses I quoted lived it, while I've only seen images, so he's clearly trustworthy on this issue - but I agree it makes no sense. I've seen images of British tracks on docks or in industrial concerns (especially from the 1930s-1950s) - no fencing there, just tracks intersecting thousands of individuals potential paths - I could not image shunting a busy dock at dusk or night without a bright headlight, but apparently they did.

BTW for you initial question, try hunting around the web for Robot railroads in Ohio - you'll get a blurb of a 1979 Trains article, but you'll probably have to search much more to get actual info.

Sir Ray wrote:

Robert Gift wrote:

Sir Ray wrote:Well, since David Benton asked nicely about it, and Mr Gift seems to be behaving himself

Wuh?
I asked nicely!
How have I ever misbehaved?! (Well, when I realized I was diverting Arm'subject off topic I brought it here.)

Well, seems people were treating you as a troll around these parts (particularly the 'Yawn' response'),

Arm was upsethat I liked the idea of remote controls, even though it meant eliminating an engineer position.

Sir Ray wrote:and while I wanted to give some info, I didn't feel like being 'pwned' (yeah, I know that's so 1999). Since Dave Benton is a long standing member of this board, responding to him was safe. Sorry for the paranoia, been posting on Usenet too much recently I guess (where everyone's either your enemy, or a dog )

Well that sounds like something I'd like.
As a MED-Stat paramedic, I'm as thick-skinned as headed!

I cannot believe the British were so cheap as to not install powerful headlights on their locomotives.

Sir Ray wrote:Hence my 'crock' line,

Look, obviously the engineer/train driver who wrote the responses I quoted lived it, while I've only seen images, so he's clearly trustworthy on this issue - but I agree it makes no sense. I've seen images of British tracks on docks or in industrial concerns (especially from the 1930s-1950s) - no fencing there, just tracks intersecting thousands of individuals potential paths - I could not image shunting a busy dock at dusk or night without a bright headlight, but apparently they did.

I presume docks and such were better lit, trains moved slowly and everyone was aware. Remember, there were unlighted ends of trains being pushed.
But moving at speed without a light? It's not like lights were a fortune.
Incredible.

Sir Ray wrote:BTW for you initial question, try hunting around the web for Robot railroads in Ohio - you'll get a blurb of a 1979 Trains article, but you'll probably have to search much more to get actual info.

Thank you. I shall try.
I believe there is a "robot road" here in Colorado.

Thank you,

Thanks Sir Ray . With high speed trains , i guess Headlights are a waste of time . by the time you see anything its too late .
but other trains you'd think there'd be some benefit .
Most british lines are heavily travelled so any problems with the track etc would be seen during the day .
But there was a nasty accident a few years ago , where landrover ended up on the mainline tracks . i think it was hit by a coal train , then a few seconds later a express plowed into the derailed coal train . quite a few fatalities . you'd have to wonder if the drivers were able to see and brake , they may reduce the seriousness on the crash .

I was yawning, because I was bored, seeing the continuous posts, regarding foreign equipment and operations. They really belong here: http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewforum.php?f=149

Robert asked: "
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I heard there is a "railroad" with completely fenced-off track on which an unoccupied engine pulls a train to the other end and back. No grade crossings.

Is this true? "

Yes, it's in my backyard, made by Lionel...........

I didn't know Lionel had outdoor stuff.

Neat!

Thanks for the link.

yes Robert , you are welcome to post your questions in the worldwide forum as well as here . There's a few brits who read it regularly .