• Twin State Railroad

  • Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New England
Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New England

Moderators: MEC407, NHN503

  by b&m 1566
NHV 669 wrote: Thu Feb 22, 2024 2:46 pm Their goal is to connect it with the existing Presidential Trail, bypassing Whitefield entirely kind of defeats that purpose... plus there's nowhere in between to park beyond the Pondicherry lot by the airport.

All road crossings mentioned are on 30 mph roads, and on a RoW the DoT already owns and is promoting for this project.

The treatment plant is on town land, not sure about the rest of the abandoned RoW within Dalton to Scott Jct.
Most of the ROW between Scott's Jct. and Whitefield Jct. is now owned by CSX. The section along Hillside Gravel Pit is private but there's an active easement still in place according to the towns latest tax map. South of Faraway Rd., the ROW is private until you get to the town line. There's no active easements along this section, so some leg work would need to be done to create an easement.
  by NHV 669
Which is likely why that section isn't under any consideration to be used in the first place.... the state and trails bureau already have the Mountain Division east of the Connecticut, eliminating a need to go through the process of acquiring the land or easements from other parties for a trail through a sandpit or water treatment plant, neither of which are appealing to anyone.

It's not like this trail group has any other real leverage other than BoT and snowmobilers (who already have corridor access, albeit diminished with recent poor winters) support, it sounds like they're wishfully thinking that NHCR will give up their operating lease, (doubtful, if they've held it this long without moving any cars) and CSXT would give them a fair price for the RoW in VT (doubtful), which is the far bigger hurdle to worry about.
  by NHN503
I think you are going to see this just being pipe dreams...
  by shepaug
excuse my short comment...

This has left the railway unsafe and unusable for pedestrians.
  by shepaug
ps..my little prejudice... Many places bike promoters are taking over railroad forums to advance their goals. Is this a bike forum ? Rail Trails nice for bikes. Hikers can go over most any land. Railroad Forum ? (not objecting to information)
  by NHV 669
Huh? This is quite obviously a RR forum; there's nothing to suggest otherwise.... we're clearly discussing track that hasn't seen a train in nearly 25 years.

Railways weren't built for pedestrians, so that comment makes little sense either; they assume the risks involved with travelling a RoW with rails still in place.

The main non rail uses on this corridor are snowmobiles in the winter, hikers and other users already have the section between Oxbow Road in Bethlehem and the Connecticut River in Woodsville without rails to use.
  by NHN503
shepaug wrote: Mon Feb 26, 2024 10:25 pm excuse my short comment...

This has left the railway unsafe and unusable for pedestrians.
What are you talking about? More context and detail are needed as to what has left the railway unsafe, and how you believe it to be so?
  by NHV 669
Finally got around to reading my copy of the 2/29 Littleton Record free paper, and there is another article in there about the Cross NH Adventure trail folks.

Apparently the final portion of their original trail to Wing Road will be completed this summer and is all paid for. They hope to commence the remainder of rail pulling to C119 in May, or April if weather allows, and go from there.

Because the line east of 119 is still formally active, the rails will remain, with some kind of fill placed between/around them. It also notes OHRVs are banned east of Industrial Park in Littleton because the project used federal dollars on those spots.
  by shepaug
Pedestrians ? Directed at no one in particular Railroad Forums are sometimes 2024 just breeding grounds for the bike trail folks who usually care nothing about railroads or history. Taxpayer money for another rail trail and zero to help a railroad and zero of anything but a new motor bike or for NH a snowmobile. How many people of the population use the rail trails % ? As a hiker I prefer something other than a paved Interstate type experience.

So I in haste saw the evolving story of the rail trail and the railroad ?
  by NHV 669
The state owns the RoW, and is behind the trail... there's no railroad left to help. There aren't any prospective customers, and nothing has moved over this section of the line in 25+ years. NHCR holds the lease, but has not moved any traffic (to include storage cars) over the section west of Whitefield.

None of these trails are of the paved variety, just a gravel base. Plenty of folks use them (walkers/bikers/horseback), I have ridden the existing Pondicherry trail and saw several other users during the time I was out.

Plenty of ATVs and sleds use the portion closer to Berlin/Gorham... it's hard to cater to sleds when the riding season (especially this year) is barely a month, if that.
  by newpylong
I think the reality of the situation is, a trail is a much better use of a corridor if there is 0% chance of service being re-established than sitting there to mother nature. Here in the Upper Valley of NH, the Northern rail trail gets an incredible amount of use and the towns it connects are pretty rural. In the summer we bike between towns on it and in the winter we snowmobile between different towns and use it to get to other trails. It is a safe corridor where you don't need to worry about getting hit by a car, etc. That said, yes the rail trail lobbyists are incredibly powerful and do not care if any potential corridor has rail potential or not, they have their agenda.
  by Goddraug
There's also the stipulation written into every rail-trail agreement that the corridor may be reconverted to rail use when deemed necessary. The realistic nature of that and whether or not it could actually occur is a discussion that could be held until the end of time, but it is written on paper.
  by Who
newpylong wrote: Mon Apr 08, 2024 3:00 pm That said, yes the rail trail lobbyists are incredibly powerful and do not care if any potential corridor has rail potential or not, they have their agenda.
Incredibly powerful, there's a handful of examples throughout the country where they've managed to shut down active rail lines to build a rail-trail, NY and IN are just two examples, they attempted it right here in NH with the WOW Trail, trying to push out the Winnipesaukee Scenic Railroad, and it's only a matter of time before they start attacking the New Hampshire Central Railroad for the tracks in Whitefield, because make no mistake about it, they want the Ammonoosuc Rail-trail and the Presidental Rail-trail connected and NH Central stands in the way of that.
  by Goddraug
Good luck if they try that. CSRR's only current outside connection is the NHCR. The sentiment of avoiding the isolation of railroads was (I think) part of the reason why they failed to kick out the Winnie Scenic.
  by Who
Rail trail supporters are going to push to have NHCR relocated over to Quebec Junction, which would preserve the CSRX's connection. Rehabbing between Waumbek and Quebec junctions can be done relatively quickly and fairly cheap, since the state would likely just have the rail and ties moved from one branch to the other.
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