Tuscon, AZ Station questions

Has anyone fully checked out the Tuscon, AZ station on the ground?

I ask because I see from Google Maps there seems to be two portals to an underground passageway, but no clear way where they actually go. It's part of the sequel novel I'm writing up... and I don't want to bug a fellow artist about the station. (He's nice, but busy as of late)

Pretty certain those led to platforms that were located for tracks that are no longer in place. It's been a few years since I've physically been at the station, but I did do a trip there when I was modeling it for OpenRails.

Ironically, yesterday I was just looking at that area for one of my next development sprint.

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eolesen wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 3:58 pm Pretty certain those led to platforms that were located for tracks that are no longer in place. It's been a few years since I've physically been at the station, but I did do a trip there when I was modeling it for OpenRails.

Ironically, yesterday I was just looking at that area for one of my next development sprint.

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It's very tempting to turn this into a 3 track station (with freight bypass track), to be honest. If the fences between it and the Maclovio Barraza Parkway can be moved, I think it can be easily done... but you'll need to rebuild the tunnel and thin down the existing platform.

But then I'm writing in station rebuilds for most of the stops anyway.

Between Main and the present day yard, the 1950's mainline was three tracks, and between Stone and 4th it was 5 tracks. The track closest to the station was removed, which is why there's so much space between the current platform and stations. The tunnels likely led back to the station for moving bags and mail.

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There's a Virtual Railfan camera at the Tucson station. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbhZhNuxWUA

From the camera view, it looks like the platform used to be an island, with stairs from an underground passage emerging at two structures that are now closed. My guess is the track between the platform and the station was removed, rendering the underground passage superfluous.

There seems to be a museum at the station, and there are feral cats living there which occasionally appear on camera.

charlesriverbranch wrote: ↑Sat May 13, 2023 1:24 pm There's a Virtual Railfan camera at the Tucson station. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbhZhNuxWUA

From the camera view, it looks like the platform used to be an island, with stairs from an underground passage emerging at two structures that are now closed. My guess is the track between the platform and the station was removed, rendering the underground passage superfluous.

There seems to be a museum at the station, and there are feral cats living there which occasionally appear on camera.

That's what got me curious at first years back. Now as I'm hitting Tucson "on the tour" I now wonder about making it four track (three via side and island, one freight bypass)... namely for parking the tour train there over the weekend. Still... it looks possible given a full-on reconstruction, and may be needed if Tucson/Phoenix commuter rail service is introduced (the Southern Arizona Transportation Museum linked to a 2018 article).

Tucson also had a connecting train(s) from station to Nogales As well the now abandoned EP&SW route to El Paso. Probably reason of previous multi station tracks.

The 1957 topo maps show a full wye at the junction to Nogales.
Browse the historic topo viewer: https://livingatlas.arcgis.com/topoexplorer/index.html

Download the 1957 24000 scale topo map for Tucson: https://prd-tnm.s3.amazonaws.com/Staged ... 00_geo.tif

Well, looks like they'd have to beef up the station anyway:

https://www.azfamily.com/2023/06/07/amt ... e-phoenix/

...Amtrak has applied for $176 million in Federal Railroad Administration (FRA) funding to improve its long-distance network. The money would go to 16 projects across the country, including Phoenix...

Stanton said the Arizona Department of Transportation is applying for a $3.5 million state grant to fund a study of a route that would go three times per day between Phoenix and Tucson.

Not necessarily a lot of improvement at downtown Tucson, but yes, at least a stub track at the SP depot to support the TUS-PHX commuter rail.

Even if all this is likely one more "and how would you like your steaks prepared, consultants?", it will be interesting to see where they propose having the Phoenix station.

But lest anyone start wondering "will they route the Daily Sunset through Phoenix?", remember the UP (maybe even the SP) chopped up Phoenix-Yuma. But then, maybe the consultants will propose relaying such. That will make any proposals to relay 26 miles Andover NJ to Slateford, PA over the DL&W so there can be Amtrak service to Scranton, PA look like child's play.

It seems to me that the Phoenix-Yuma trackage remains from satellite imagery although not in the state that would allow passenger trains to use it. I suspect that in 1996, UP wanted more money than Amtrak could afford to maintain that section to passenger standards and that without support from the state, Amtrak didn't fight to keep that routing.

There's already a Phoenix Union Station. Just rebuild the yard.

Gilbert B Norman wrote:Even if all this is likely one more "and how would you like your steaks prepared, consultants?", it will be interesting to see where they propose having the Phoenix station.

But lest anyone start wondering "will they route the Daily Sunset through Phoenix?", remember the UP (maybe even the SP) chopped up Phoenix-Yuma. But then, maybe the consultants will propose relaying such. That will make any proposals to relay 26 miles Andover NJ to Slateford, PA over the DL&W so there can be Amtrak service to Scranton, PA look like child's play.

The only saving grace is that the track is intact, not severed from Phoenix to Wellton, with it used for storage ten miles deep at both ends between the nuclear plant at Buckeye and Roll. Aside from maybe running a hyrail each year or three, it hasn't been maintained. Signals have been vandalized for the copper.

It still might be cheaper to scrap and rebuild.

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eolesen wrote: ↑Thu Jun 08, 2023 7:55 am

Gilbert B Norman wrote:Even if all this is likely one more "and how would you like your steaks prepared, consultants?", it will be interesting to see where they propose having the Phoenix station.

But lest anyone start wondering "will they route the Daily Sunset through Phoenix?", remember the UP (maybe even the SP) chopped up Phoenix-Yuma. But then, maybe the consultants will propose relaying such. That will make any proposals to relay 26 miles Andover NJ to Slateford, PA over the DL&W so there can be Amtrak service to Scranton, PA look like child's play.

The only saving grace is that the track is intact, not severed from Phoenix to Wellton, with it used for storage ten miles deep at both ends between the nuclear plant at Buckeye and Roll. Aside from maybe running a hyrail each year or three, it hasn't been maintained. Signals have been vandalized for the copper.

It still might be cheaper to scrap and rebuild.

Yeah, when I did my research for the first novel, I saw that the track was essentially abandoned. So I assumed it was taken up and that UP would need to rebuild it... and rebuild it they did.

Still, rebuild Tuscon and Phoenix to through-run the Sunset Limited and have a Phoenix/Tuscon shuttle train? All for that, and I'll ask my artist friend down there about it as well.