Train overshoots station - then what?

Yesterday NEC train # 3830 (a local) overshot the platform at Princeton Junction, coming to a stop about 100 yards past the station. After a couple of minutes the train went on it's way, leaving alot of riders who were waiting for the local very angry. (I had just gotten off of the express that had arrived a few mintues later.) I felt sorry for this one girl, it was her second day at a new job, she was taking the local to Rahway, she was almost crying.

People were complaining to the agent inside, all she could say was that the person running the train would be in "big trouble".

Anyway, what could've been done in this situation? How long does it take to put a train in reverse? Could it not be done because of the time situation (express only a few minutes behind it). Could they have let peole walk down the end of the platform and get on the train using the low-level doors? Anyway, there was alot of ill will towards NJTransit that day.

Wow, I've never seen that happen!

AKelley728 wrote:Yesterday NEC train # 3830 (a local) overshot the platform at Princeton Junction, coming to a stop about 100 yards past the station. After a couple of minutes the train went on it's way, leaving alot of riders who were waiting for the local very angry. (Fortunately I was waiting for the express that was arriving a few mintues later.) I felt sorry for this one girl, it was her second day at a new job, she was taking the local to Rahway, she was almost crying.

Are you sure it was 3830? I don't think trains ever do that, as there would be passengers both on and off the train that would be messed up by that.

One time we didn't make a scheduled stop due to a switch failing to operate in order to get us to track... what is it, 5, at Linden... but other than that, I'm pretty sure they do reverse for that... maybe it was another train stopping for a signal?

Wow, overshoot PJ, thats pretty hard to do, considering thats a 12 car platform!!! But Ive heard of it happening before, adn it will happen in the future!!!

Its a little more complicated than just backing up.......the crew might have not wanted to say anything (very embarassing over the radio) so they didn't ask for permission to back up, which they would need to contact the dispatcher. Or the dispatcher might not have let them back up either.....dispatch might have just said, check your train, see if you have any passegners for PJ, if not, continue east, with another train being right on its heals......

If they were to back up and take the station again, they would first need to see if they cleared signal auto 470 on the east end of the station. That would mean they entered the next block. Track 1 is 251, signaled in an eastbound direction. If they didn't clear 470, they could put a man on the hind end, and reverse back into the station, or ask for permission of the dispatcher to reverse back into the station. If they did clear 470, they would need a Form D to operate west on track 1, or permission to travel one trainlength only into the block with a man on the hind end at restricted speed.

Im sure that crew got an earfull when they got to NYP, as the phone calls to NJT were starting as soon as the hind end past the station!!

I've had that happen about 3 times on a RVL line train I was on over the past 6 years or so. Once it overshot Plainfield, when still a low platform, and got permission to back up when the conductor stationed himself in the cab car at the rear. Another time, I forget which station, the last car or two was still platformed so they simply had passengers walk to that car. The other time the engineer on a morning run forgot to slow for North Branch station until too late and we stopped a bit east, on the bridge. Again, the train was backed with permission.

With the NEC frequency, backing would probably often cause too many delays, and passengers have relatively frequent oppostite directions service to get back to their desired station that was missed.

Standard radio transmission would be we slid by station could we back up about 2 trainlenghts ??
at which Disp usualy gives permission unless another train is already in same signal sequence.
The Dispatcher usually also wants you to call at final destination.
again standard reply I don't know why rail was slippery it was ok at other stations

Was this consist Arrows or a push-pull? Possibly had too many cut-out or dead Arrows to get decent braking action.

ryanov wrote: Are you sure it was 3830? I don't think trains ever do that, as there would be passengers both on and off the train that would be messed up by that.

Positive. I had just gotten off of 3930 (the express that follows the 3830 local) so I could get on the Clocker. When I got off there were announcements being made by the station agent shouting that this was an express, next stop NB, doesn't stop at Met, Rahway, etc. We sincerely apologize for what just happened, etc. I asked someone who was standing there what happened and he explained the whole thing. I made my way to the waiting area where there were some passengers there still yelling at the agent.

I guess passengers that needed to get off got off in NB and went back, and those that needed to get on had to wait an hour to get on the 9:12.

GandyDancer wrote:Was this consist Arrows or a push-pull? Possibly had too many cut-out or dead Arrows to get decent braking action.

Push-pull.

GandyDancer wrote:Was this consist Arrows or a push-pull? Possibly had too many cut-out or dead Arrows to get decent braking action.

Well, if that was the case, the engineer should have realized that already at Hamilton and acted accordingly and PJ. After all, it is much better to be late and arrive to a station then to not arrive at a station at all. This is truly an amazing story. An engineer missing completely a 12-car platform station. Wow.

EDIT: If they did contact the dispatcher and asked for permission to reverse and if it was granted, they would have to reverse at a restricted speed of 15MPH right?

They could go 20mph, 15 through interlockings, but there is no longer an interlocking there at PJ.

Jtgshu wrote:They could go 20mph, 15 through interlockings, but there is no longer an interlocking there at PJ.

OK, thanks.

Nick, it's not amazing. Braking characteristics are not always the same, and often (as we sometimes find out) change enroute. This doesn't happen as often with push-pulls, but it is common with Arrows. An example is while running, the first car goes dead. This automatically means that you no longer have dynamic brakes for the entire train, and that can dramatically increase stopping distance. Failure of trailing cars doesn't cause that to happen, since the only dynamics lost are in the failed cars.

Granted, on an ALP, a breaker trips and it's bye-bye dynamics again. All other types of conditions cause poor braking. In the morning, a platform that shades the rails allows moisture to remain on the track in front of the station, while the rest of the railroad is clean and dry. That's why it sometimes seems forever for the train to slow to a stop after the speed has dropped to 10 or so mph. Of course, engineers are normally aware of conditions such as this.

Passengers usually blame it on the engineer being an 'extra' man, when in fact, the extra engineers are usually more conscience of station stops because they don't run the same train everyday.

Sometimes the problem is caused by 'head up the ass'. I ran an express train that was non-stop Newark to New Brunswick, five days a week for almost a year. One night, the engineer of the train ahead of me was taken sick, and I was tossed into his place. His train was also an express, but only to Rahway. Needless to say, we were doing 80 when the rearbrake announced "Rahway". All I could do was key the PA and announce "Metropark". Fortunatly, they held the eastbound at the Park, and returned all the less than happy commuters to Rahway. Yes, there was a reception committee at Trenton, and I got my pee-pee smacked.

The difference is that in many jobs, when a mistake is made, the worker hits the "backspace" and corrects the problem with no one the wiser. When a conductor calls the wrong station, or an engineer overshoots, the whole world knows.

It shouldn't happen but it does. Someday, when we are replaced by computers, the problem will be solved. Everyone knows that computers are infallable.

^Thanks for the insight TR. The only thing about computers is that they aren't nearly as much fun! :D

TR-00 wrote:

The difference is that in many jobs, when a mistake is made, the worker hits the "backspace" and corrects the problem with no one the wiser. When a conductor calls the wrong station, or an engineer overshoots, the whole world knows.

It shouldn't happen but it does. Someday, when we are replaced by computers, the problem will be solved. Everyone knows that computers are infallable.

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TR - I've noticed that some Amtrak conductors at metropark will use the portable radio to remind the engineer about the next station. That makes sense when it could be New Bruns, PJ, or Trenton.

"Conductor to engineer, 178."
"178, Go ahead, conductor."
"Next stop, PJ, right?"
"Roger that, PJ"
"I've got 60-70 off at PJ, luggage, conductor out."
"Coupla minutes, roger."