Train 192 Friday night - 12/16

Does anyone have any insight on tr 192 Friday night? It broke down in Kew Gardens which includes such highlights as the bullprick breaking on the east end after a failed rescue attempt by a 1500. And hundreds of passengers going back to Penn on tr 8001 to get another train to go east via the temporary platform into one door at Kew Gardens because mainline 3 was out of service.

In a nutshell:

All the new inverters blew fuses on Train 192 at Kew Gardens, leaving it without power. Car inspectors and mechanical foremen arrived from Jamaica but had no fuses.

Engine was called and mechanical foreman set up train to be towed improperly. Engineer, not noting excessive resistance of twelve cars holding brake pulled drawhead, breaking coupler.

Engine to other end. Compromise coupler damaged by previous attempt and could not be used.

Evacuation to adjecent train ordered using evacuation board. Board cracked. No injury.

Another engine sent with new coupler.

Mechanical foreman then found fuses or went to get them, replaced several and train continued on its own power.

Usually a good idea to shove a train of that length instead of trying to pull it. Not trying to be a monday morning quarterback, just giving an opinion.

The problem with shoving it is that you would have to operate via handsign. It would mean stopping whenever you lost sight of the sign. Not a problem if we just had to get the thing into the station, etc.

Pulling it would have worked, as it usually does, if the brakes were released.

Hahahaha

Clem

They're still having fuse popping issues on those cars?

The bullprick on the 7's a bit bigger than the 1/3, at least it looks bigger. Maybe it should be a horseprick instead?

What kinda fuses do those things use, anyway? Are they even standard fuses that you could source through a (real) electric distributor?

Phil,

They are readily available 250 amp bolt-in fuses.
The situation is that the "crowbar circuit" intentionally blows the fuse (I'm sure you know what a crowbar circuit is... the explanation is for others. A crowbar circuit is named for what would happen if you toss a crowbar into an electrical cabinet.) to protect the converter/inverter itself from spike that might destroy a good part of it.

As the OEM (read unoverhauled) M-1 fleet wanes, there is much more of a chance that a legacy equipment consist will be comprised of M-3 cars, which all now have inverters instead of M/As, and/ or M-1 overhauled cars, which also all have inverters. This is at least the second time in recent memory that an entire legacy consist has been left "high and dry".

I don't think we will get rid of third rail spikes, so equipment workaround is in order. Perhaps a high speed circuit breaker setup, which would monitor voltage and current inputs, in lieu of fuse, or in conjunction with a slow-blow fuse.
High speed circuit breakers, as used on RRs, will usually reset themselves 3 - 5 times before locking out. Too many trips within a certain time frame will also lock them out.

They won't spend any money on retrofits for the M-1s, but the M-3s should be considered for modification. Eventually, when all the M-7s are here, any legacy consist will be all M-3s. Hence, all inverter equipped.

Tom

P.S.

Yes, The mechanical coupler's notched prong (politically correct) of the M-7 is larger girth than the M-1/M-3 (the lucky dogs.)

The railroad should do something about the problem. The consist had a m/3 pair on each end(I was also told this was a problem). The passangers were stuck on this thing for hours(12 cars packed). If there is a possibilty of leaving a crew and its passangers "high and dry" an immediate fix needs to be done. The excuse of more consists with m/3 pairs doesn't fly when you tell the passangers why your stuck.

<i>I don't think we will get rid of third rail spikes, so equipment workaround is in order. Perhaps a high speed circuit breaker setup, which would monitor voltage and current inputs, in lieu of fuse, or in conjunction with a slow-blow fuse.</i>

I'd be more interested in exactly WHY this is going on in the first place - the NYCTA and others run inverter equipment, I'm not aware of many issues with their stuff. With a nearly 10X fleet size, almost all with at least an aux inverter, I'd imagine they'd see any problem long before and more ofdten than the LIRR.

Might be the crowbar circuit is a bit quick on the trigger. I thought the '7s had an input choke to help keep inrush/spikes down.

<i>High speed circuit breakers, as used on RRs, will usually reset themselves 3 - 5 times before locking out. Too many trips within a certain time frame will also lock them out. </i>

I'd imagine the third rail ones don't, though. I know as a fact that the reclosers on NJT's catenary are all disconnected - they want a trip to stay down until they know what happened, and with their voltages, it's understandable. As bad as 750V is, 25kv and 27.6kv are really nasty...

What's a jaw droper is the fault currents on the third rail

Oh yeah, and I still vote for horseprick on the '7s hehehe.

Just to keep the record straight --

Train 192 last Friday night had 288 passengers aboard its twelve cars. Most were evacuated though several chose the remain with the equipment and were permitted to do so.

Clem

Clem,
Were you on that train?????? Where did you get 288????? Seated load , first 6 six cars standing room only. I was stuck deadheading on that thing. I don't who cooked the books already with the passanger count but it was not 288. lets get the story straight.