Torrington Extension? (Waterbury Branch)

Don't yell at me, I'm not suggesting it. News is a bit dated, but in the news: CT Now

With Transportation Funds In Mind, Efforts Promote Rail Projects

Towns from the northwest hills, northern Fairfield County, eastern Connecticut and the Waterbury-to-Berlin corridor are all lobbying the state to bring back passenger train service to areas where it hasn't run in decades. In most cases, they're citing economic development opportunities as the reason to modernize older freight tracks to accommodate commuter cars.

Sen. Henri Martin, R-Bristol, is proposing to restore passenger service to Torrington...

Another source: Register Citizen

Request for support of a study into passenger service between Waterbury and Torrington met with similar concern, with some skepticism.

While state Department of Transportation officials have said the line has insufficient ridership to upgrade, Richard Lynn said there has never been any supporting data. A study — of unknown cost — would provide the data and let the DOT and area officials know how to proceed.

“There are also maintenance issues [regarding the line] ... but it also has significant potential to enhace our transporation infrastructure,” Lynn said.

The old commuter station in Torrington has been torn down, and Timothy Waldron, assistant to Torrington Mayor Elinor Carbone, said the mayor, on the whole, is in favor of the proposal, though she, too, is interested in seeing dollar amounts for the project.

“I think the days of rail travel for passengers into our part of the state are gone,” Paul said. “There was a train that used to come from New York City and you’d get into a horse and buggy and come to the inn.”

But Craig Nelson, of Warren, disagreed.

“I have people who come into my town and take a train to commute to New York City a few times a week,” he said. “I don’t have any industry in my town but [the train] keeps people in my town.”

He referred to advanced economies in Europe and Japan that had transferred their dependence to rail travel.

Stein agreed.

“I’ve driven to Waterbury to get on a train. I’ve driven to New Haven to get on a train. I think if there was a train in Torrington, it would get used,” he said.

As much as I have a soft spot for that boring for good old Torrington, service restoration there should be lower on the totem pole than the oft talked about Danbury Electrification®

What needs to happen in Torrington is respectable bus service and get people to Waterbury to use existing services if they don't have a car and can't just drive to Waterbury, New Haven, Fairfield, Brewster, etc. Whatever bus service exists between Torrington and Waterbury is pretty poorly publicized as well. (Don't get me started on the crappy Candystriper bus either...)

You'd probably be pushing 3 and a half hours AT LEAST to Grand Central by train - DRIVING to Brewster would save you travel time even if you factor in the hour drive. In typical traffic (and going *with* traffic flow ) you can get to Waterbury on Route 8 in about 25 minutes from downtown Torrington. A bus, would of course be slower, but still would beat a train which would take at least 45 minutes to get to Waterbury. Once you get north and west of Torrington, you're probably going to Wassaic anyway. (When I lived in Goshen it was the closest station to me with any semblance of decent frequencies. Now being < 1mi from the Waterbury branch I just suck it up)

Torrington is a withering city, no matter how many failed downtown revitalization plans they try enacting. The population is never going to be there to justify the expenditure to upgrade the tracks, nor the service. The "weekenders" in Litchfield County are probably closer to the Harlem Line anyway, and there probably wouldn't be very much intermediate commuting to Waterbury and so forth, as a lot of people in the area work in Hartford, Farmington, etc.

(PS Jeff, this is me not yelling at you about how much of a hairbrained scheme this is)

Folks thinking someone would use Torrington to get to GCT are as misinformed as the folks pushing Danbury electrification are, I'm sure we agree. The market obviously would be someone using it intrastate. Might not be a bad idea to get folks off 8 when they start fixing the "mixmaster". Hey, RMNE now has a Budd car! And better tracks than the Housy...

And as you have pointed out in the past, parking at Waterbury is not optimal. If you're there, and the schedule works, like you say, you just suck it up. Hopefully the improvements they're planning make the branch a better experience.

This really is something that, if it is to happen, needs to be as minimal investment and barebones as possible. Torrington and Thomaston are really the two major places you could possibly put a stop. And speaking of a Budd RDC, something like that is about the only thing that'd be worth the fuel to do it with; running more than two coaches would be wholly unneeded. You could run a RDC/DMU or a small locomotive with a coach or two back and forth between Torrington and Waterbury, or back and forth between Torrington and a more southerly station like Derby (since running into Bridgeport probably wouldn't be worthwhile as to not take up New Haven Line slots).

It really is a shame that Bombardier hasn't tried taking the Budd RDC and SPV-2000 designs they now own out of the closet and made another modern (and actually reliable) successor to the RDC; this is the kind of thing where a cheap, reliable, and efficient RDC/DMU can make service feasible.

As a train lover I would love to see passenger train service return to Torrington which is the place of my birth BUT it is probably not at all practical considering the fact that a bus on Route 8 would do Torrington to or from Waterbury in maybe 25 minutes even with a quick stop around Thomaston vs close to an hour on rails each way. There are not as many curves as there were before the Thomaston Dam was created and built but it is a line that was not built nor intended for any passenger operations at least when it opened in 1959 I think it was. What really is needed in Torrington as well as Thomaston and Winsted is a decent and reliable bus operation between these three points and the railroad station in Waterbury. I rode the Budd Car between Waterbury and Winsted many times in the mid to late 50's and the ridership north of Waterbury was too little to support the train even before Route 8 had been finished in the Naugatuck Valley. Cost wise and time wise this trip could not win.
Noel Weaver

If you are in or around Torrington, Waterbury is the closest Metro North stop but yes, parking there is lax. Plus, that station isn't in the best part of town. When the service increases, then hopefully parking will improve as well as added security. I don't think it's overly uncommon for people who live in and around Torrington to drive to a station along the Harlem Line such as Southeast. Wassaic might take a little extra time because looking at a map, I can see that the roads that you take like Rt. 4 to 343 are a little curvy but it probably isn't out of the question. Now, if you are truly in the Northwestern Corner of Connecticut in towns such as Canaan or any of the Cornwalls, then yes, Wassaic is the closest stop. Plenty of people from Northwestern Ct, the Berkshires, and Columbia County NY use Wassaic for travel on Metro North. I have ridden up to there a few times.

It's not even lax parking in Waterbury that's the issue, they took out the old dilapidated building blocking 75% of the lot from view of the street and you can now park in that area except in the winter when they're too cheap to clear the snow - I would feel a lot better about leaving my brand new car there if I had to now - even if the station's neighborhood still leaves much to be desired. The only time I have ever seen that parking lot remotely crowded is when half of it was blocked off while they were ripping down the old building (I think it was owned by SNET at one point?) The issue is it's "Do I drive 25 minutes and spend two and a half hours on the train or drive an hour and spend and hour to Southeast to spend an hour and 20 with a better schedule and a 'better clientele'?" As someone who lived in the area for 15 years in Torrington, Goshen, and Harwinton I can tell you the vast majority of people either think Waterbury is the pits (they're not wrong...but that's a whole other animal) or were unaware you can take Metro-North from there to begin with. (That's another issue that NEEDS to be addressed once Waterbury frequencies are out of the toilet. PUBLICIZE the service so people use it.) People go to Southeast, New Haven (these tend to be the people who don't think the train makes intermediate stops), or Wassaic.

I know a fair few people who live in Torrington who go to Wassaic because they'd rather not deal with 84 to Southeast or the lovely experience that is 34 once you get toward New Haven. Yeah 4 and 341 are windy but there is less than zero traffic - and far less chances to run into cops with a lead foot if that's how you operate, plus Wassaic is out in the sticks so nobody's paranoid about leaving their car there.

Like I said before (and Noel reiterated), Torrington needs decent bus service. You'd probably fill a quarter of an RDC with the ridership between Torrington and Waterbury on a good day. It's not worth the equipment expenditures, fixing the tracks, OR building a Naugatuck bus shelter style station (can you even build those anymore?) since Torrington let their old train station rot away so much that apparently the only option was to rip it down.

There are now also nicer stops on the New Haven that don't involve New Haven or Bridgeport. Fairfield Metro, West Haven, etc. where you don't have to worry about sufficient parking or infrequent service.

As for Torrington, well, I've only been in that general direction once. I think Wassaic is less of an option for Central CT than those areas along the Berkshire/Housy crying for passenger service (and only New Milford makes sense there, but I digress). And the Wassaic Extension (it's not a branch) isn't exactly frequent either. I lived in Patterson, NY for a year, but even now, with better service, it's still not that frequent. I'm not a fan of Brewster North, either.

Driving on 84 for that stretch SUCKS. When they tear up the mix-master, it's going to be worse. Yeah, I think this is low priority. Very low on the list for CT. But seeing as there's an operation with running equipment.... it seems to me it would be an interesting experiment.

Under the present conditions the railroad is good for maybe 25 MPH at best and some might be only 10 MPH. It would need a fortune for the necessary track work to get it back in the condition that it was in at the time of regular passenger service that last ran way back in 1958 before the present Route 8 was anywhere near completion. Even in those days top speed anywhere on the Naugy for passenger trains was 50 MPH. You could drive from Thomaston to Waterbury in maybe 15 or 20 minutes without exceeding legal speeds at any location and this particular stretch of highway is seldom congested. It is a great scenic tourist ride but as a common carrier passenger railroad, NO it is not and not likely it ever will be. The folks who would use public transportation between Torrington and Waterbury and beyond would not be willing to spend at least an hour just for a scenic ride just to get the 20 odd miles from Torrington to Waterbury then have to change trains at both Waterbury and Bridgeport. What is vitally needed for improved transportation options in this area is far better service between Waterbury and New York with most trains running through without the necessity of the change at Bridgeport and a express bus service on Route 8 between Waterbury and Winsted serving Thomaston, maybe East Litchfield, Torrington and finally Winsted at least for most trips. A decent park and ride lot at Thomaston, East Litchfield, Torrington and Winsted would help the mix.
Noel Weaver

Even with that old building gone at the Waterbury station, people still are getting their cars broken into. In the handful of times I've went there, there's been broken glass in approximately the same spot every time; and these were months apart. It's just a problem with the part of the area south of where that building used to be. They really ought to put some security cameras in there with prominently placed signs warning about said cameras.

But getting back more on topic, perhaps they could (re)construct a station slighty north in the Waterville area of Waterbury. It'd be easier to get to than downtown Waterbury for either people driving from the north or the prospective bus service mentioned above. You at least could get more potential spots to put it as well, since it could be evaluated on both the Highland and the Naugy. Putting it on the Naugy in Waterville puts it along the industrial and commercial areas there (i.e.: this is where the Naugy excursions turn around, and also where Fascia's Chocolates is). There's more flat area here, and is also marginally closer to CT 8 than the Highland, but because of the aforementioned industrial areas it is visually a bit seedy in places. Putting it on the Highland would put it bordering on the neighborhoods in the area, which because are on the outer extremities of the city, aren't a safety concern. There's basically no flat land here, however, so I have no idea where you'd put the damn thing; the old station that was present here was straddling the embankment immediately north of the Boyden Street underpass. On the Highland it would at least play better into the Waterbury <-> Hartford service that'll likely develop in the near future, but because of the lack of flat land, you couldn't place any substantial amount of parking... which defeats the purpose of putting a station there for the purpose of boarding people coming down from the Thomaston and Torrington areas. On the Naugy, it'd be closer to major streets and have access to more land to put parking on, but it wouldn't be usable by the the Waterbury <-> Hartford service at all... that'd also cause overlap in the operating areas of the Naugy excursions and Metro-North.

Keep in mind that the line north of Waterbury had the last "regular" passenger service coming to an end in Dec. 1958, before the major line relocation for the Thomaston Dam. There are many curves on both the "new" and old routes, some as sharp as 9 degrees (for comparison, the Danbury loop track is a bit sharper, at 12 degrees), and many at 4-6 degrees. There is very little straight track of any length-- Campville and Waterville are about it. Rebuilding the line with heavy welded rail would help speeds a bit, but to be reasonably competitive with Route 8 times and speeds, much curve straightening would be needed. And at what cost? For what amount of service demand?

Extend the Harlem north from Wassaic to Millerton (tell the trail people to walk someplace else), and that's really the faster and better way to New York.

You currently have a grey zone access wise at Waterbury,Both PAR(PAS?) and the Naugy share the track from
Highland Jct to the east yard lead switch in Waterbury Yard,MN(ConnDOT)uses/controls the "Main" track at the platform,
with enough headroom east of the platform to possibly hold a "mini" set,that switch is Lined+Locked to the yard lead.
PAR(PAS?) territory ends at a former Block Limit Station named "King",just short of the Highland Jct switch.
The Naugy seems to "end" at the Highland Jct switch, so the "grey zone" is 1/2 mile of track at least to the
yard lead switch.

I-84 thru Waterbury as always a Construction Zone from route 8 till the I-691 Jct,trying to shoehorn in a 3rd lane
in that section,best "view" of the yard was on the I-81 bridge toward Downtown Waterbury.(EB)

Torrington is much more oriented to Hartford commutes than it is Bridgeport, and is a particularly hard east-west commute because of all the congestion on CT 4 and US 6. A Waterbury Branch extension doesn't end up serving the primary demand up the Naugy; Hartford-Waterbury CR does. And that means a transfer any which way. Since CT 8 is free and clear all points north of Waterbury, simply having robust connecting bus service--already a big need--serves them very well for fast transfers to the train station. Faster than even a tippy-top upgraded Naugy would achieve. The bus demand would really crest with Hartford-Waterbury CR enabling transfers in both directions. I think there'd even be adequate demand for poking that service up to Windsor Locks to terminate there instead of Hartford Union because of how brutally difficult it is to get from this part of the state to Bradley.


The Naugy's a treasure that absolutely needs to be exploited more as a transportation asset. But this particular proposal is the answer to a question no one's asking. And probably never will ask. Get more Naugy trains into Waterbury station for the future commuter rail transfers because it'll pump up the leisure utilization of that line quite a bit. Definitely pursue freight opportunities, which do exist with decent upside primarily in the form of scrap/waste transfer. But proper CDOT or MNRR commuter rail service? It's just not there. Or nearly as useful as bus-to-CR in a future where you can pick north-south or east-west CR routes out of Waterbury on a quick jaunt down the empty portion of CT 8.

Don't get me wrong; I agree with the skepticism. This has to be WAY down CT'DOT Rail's wish list. There is so much more out there. But it's the first time I've seen it mentioned. Normally, the Central CT types are clamoring to extend to Bristol or New Britain. And that would be part of any Hartford Waterbury CR.