This is starting to get old

Yep, once again, I was questioned by the police. The 2:38 train from PW to NYP. I was interviewing a couple on the train about the subway centenial. Right after I finished, 2 MTA cops came up to me. They told me that I can't be filming on any MTA property b/c of the heightened awareness. I asked them if they had a rule book on them and they just said the same thing again. They told me I needed a permit and a bunch of other BS that we all know is false.

I accepted defeat only b/c I knew the cops wanted to get the people I had just interviewed involved, and that's the last thing I wanted to happen. Fortunately after they left, the couple and two other girls on their way home from school all told me they knew I was right and was glad that I didn't just give up right away. The 2 girls were sayin the same thing alot of us railfans say, "they've got nothin better to do"

And NO, I wasn't using a tripod.

they are correct filming on MTA you need a comercial film permit.
just private picture taking is allowed.

MTA site says filming is legal too. The same section that says photography is legal. Go back and read it.

filming for private purpose is allowed, you were doing a school project wich is a comercial project.
Besides the NYC Transit code of conduct is not valid on MNCR or LIRR. Railroads have differrent rules than the transit system.

On any train, or station, all I do is avi. files from my camera if I wanted a quick film clip of trains leaving, or my usual picture taking, and there is no problem. Again, anyone who does this must be as discrete as possible. I can give clear explanations if any Police Officer questions me, and I am usually fine.

DutchRailnut wrote:filming for private purpose is allowed, you were doing a school project wich is a comercial project.
Besides the NYC Transit code of conduct is not valid on MNCR or LIRR. Railroads have differrent rules than the transit system.

Not to be too arguementative, but how is a project for school a 'commerical project'?

Maybe with Nimbykiller's first million he can buy some kind of fat-cat permit...

Let's just call it like it as it: Paranoid Bullsh*t.

School projects are ment to be shown to multiple persons, and not just records for private use. passegers may want to object and sue the railroads for using their image, for personal or religous reasons. the courts determined that accidental use like private pictures can not be avoided.

AFAIK MTA/NYCT stipulates that filming IS allowed as long as you are NOT using a tripod. I assume this is because a tripod indicates a professional use (i.e. commercial effort)besides being a potential tripping hazard for customers as well as employees.

So, NIMBYKiller was not in the wrong by what he did (as long as he didn't have a tripod.

AND....I also believe that the filming/photographing rules for MNCRR & LIRR are pretty much the same as NYCT since they are all under the same operating authority.

wrong federal rules apply to MNCR/LIRR not state or city rules.
Now the police have told him, railroad officials told him, railfans told him but in Nimby's world the world is wrong exept for him.

"passegers may want to object and sue the railroads for using their image, for personal or religous reasons."

Prior to interviewing the couple, I DID ask for their permission. They agreed without holding back and were great people to interview. I had the camera focused on them and nothing else. The only hint that it may have been on a LIRR train(or any train for that matter) was that they were sitting down.


"So, NIMBYKiller was not in the wrong by what he did (as long as he didn't have a tripod. "

Which I did not, b/c I know that a tripod and also flash can not be used.


"Now the police have told him, railroad officials told him, railfans told him but in Nimby's world the world is wrong exept for him."

Yeah, the police have told me. But they've also told me that photography on the subways was illegal. They've told dozens of people you and I know the same exact thing. The MTA has told me twice that photography and video taping ARE legal on the LIRR provided I don't use a tripod or flash, and that I'm not blocking pedestrian flow, which I always make sure that I'm not. The only railfan telling me what I was doing is definately illegal is you. So why don't you cut the crap and butt out, b/c quite honestly, I don't believe you. And after being told the opposite of what you're saying by the MTA, why should I believe you?

You do not need a Commercial filming permit. Unless he wants to make a profit from his video by selling them, thats different.

If you do need a permit, than how come I can stand in clear view of 2 MTA popos and not get spoken to. They should have come over to me and asked to see it if they were a couple of pain in the you know what.

I snaped a few shots w/flash ant night infront of a MTA cop n he did not even give 2 $hits about it, (his cell phone was more important)

all in all, it depends upon who the cop is and how much of a "rule pussy" he/she is.

I have met many MTA and NON MTA cops who let me procede taking pictures becaus
A) they understood that im a railfan
B) they seen very clearly that I WAS NOT using a "tripod" or any anceallary device.
C) the officers had a friendly conversation w/me as well.

So as i stated above it all depends on weather or not you are hassled by a "Rule Pussy(s)" or not.

most officers know who is a (real) railfan and who are just acting it.

If something is being use "commerically" it is being USED to MAKE a PROFIT. and for a high school project, it is not commerical, odds are that it will be forgotten in time like many other school projects and become the indivisuals privite collection.

Honostly I dont think NIMBY was interviewing these people for a Profit making purpose. and if he was he should have been smart enough to get there "written" permission to publicly show there picture.

ex. I _______________ hearby give NIMBY the sole permission to use a film or picture of myself for commerical/public purpose.

the above is just a simple idea of what can be used by NIMBY to cover his ass, 2 copies 1 for him 1 for the person.

picture taking and filming is a big difference, and filming on a train specialy people becomes a sore issue.
The ticket you purchased is soley for purpose of transportation, not for occupying the train for other purposes. this is how they evict panhandlers - political candidates - religous freeeks etc. outside the train there is not much they can do as long as your not obstructing pathways , passenger flow or are endangering yourself, or getting in restricted areas.
and as for Nimby not liking my advise, oops you posted on a public forum, and my opinion is part of my freedom of speech

< agrees with jaap

To clear a few things up:

Legally, "commercial" means activity engaged for the purpose of making money or other tangible gain. Thus a school filming project is not commercial by definition. However, MN has the right to prohibit any activity it deems inappropriate, so it doesn't matter whether or not the filming was commercial. It was sitll against MN policy.

Verbal permission from an interviewee alone is not enough to protect the interviewer from liability. The interviewee has to be made to understand how and where the media will be used, and must either sign a release or state his/her assent on tape. If that isn't done, a suit could arise, with MN as one of the defendants (a case like NIMBY's would probably be thrown out of court, but there'd still be legal expenses).

That said, I'm impressed that NIMBY did what he could to shield his interviewees from involvement in the situation. Very professional. One thing I have to disagree with, though: the cops were doing their jobs as they saw it, not just amusing themselves because "they've got nothin better to do."