Third rail

I have a question about the third rail. I was talking to some guy and he said he saw someone actually sit upon it and not die. He said as long as you are not touching the running rail at the same time you are safe. Was this guy pulling my leg, or what?

There's only one way to find out and it's not by posting here on RR.net...

RHL wrote:I have a question about the third rail. I was talking to some guy and he said he saw someone actually sit upon it and not die. He said as long as you are not touching the running rail at the same time you are safe. Was this guy pulling my leg, or what?

The running rail is the ground for the circuit, so it would be almost guaranteed death is the current was to pass acress the ab/chest area (I do not believe that if your feet are bare (and touching a running rail) and your knees touch the 3rd rail you would die, but it would sure make you wish you were dead). If you are touching the ground, you can still complete the circuit, and it could still possibly kill you, but it is RELATIVELY safe compared to touching the running rail (I said RELATIVELY safe, DO NOT interpret this as meaning it is safe itself!)

IN THEORY, If you jumped up onto the 3rd rail with both feet, and DO NOT touch the third rail and anything other than the third rail at the same time, you should be fine. But that is one risky balance beam!

You may have seen the guy sitting on the cover, which is not electrified, but I sure as heck wouldn't do that!

To make a long story short, Just Don't touch it at all!

Having wet shoes will get you killed believe me.
The guy probably saw a worker sitting on a deenergized third rail.
any circuit between live third rail and ground will kill you.

Well...if we don't hear a response from you, we'll assume you found out...
This thread is as shocking as 750VDC!

I've always been under the assumption that if one were to jump upon the 3rd rail with both feet and land firmly thereon, touching NOTHING as you did and as you landed, you would be safe. (Just as when a bird alights upon a high-tension line and doesn't get cooked.)

I've walked amongst, around and over 3rd rail countless times and ALWAYS respected it and the danger it presented.

I would never ever even stand on the wooden safety cover, for fear that it may be rotted and I'd fall through (and I've seen my share of rotting safety covers!!)

I NEVER assumed that the rail was de-energized. ALWAYS figure it to be hot and react accordingly!!

My procedure was to always step OVER it, NEVER on the cover, making sure that all body parts and clothing were clear in the process. Am I over-cautious? You're damn well right I am as everyone should be around that kind of voltage!!

Respect electricity . . . . it's a lot more powerful than you!!!

Dave Keller

I can't resist a good posting no matter how "revolting" it may be. Sure, you can sit on third rail wile it's energized. Just like birds sit on high tenion lines. I am sure, birds have much better balance than the humans do. If you do decide to test the theory, please do it before you reproduce. That way we can test two theories at one time: sitting on the third rail AND Darwins theories on selective breeding. Hopefully your "stupidity gene" will disapear from the gene pool all together, thus making humans smarter in the future.
Have a beer on me.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't the third rails usually have covers over them. If this is the case, the worker could have been sitting on the cover. Still not a great idea.
For birds, the case with the overhead catenary(at least the high voltage ones) is different because the lines arc if something of different potenial gets close to them.

From "Running Scared":

Billy Crystal: "You know, it's not the voltage that kills you, it's the current"
Gregory Hines: "Really? How much current is there?"
Billy Crystal: "Enough to run a train!"

Put it this way: It's the voltage that pushes the current, and Underwriters Laboritories says that anything over 60 Volts is unsafe for skin contact. So how safe is 750 Volts? The only thing nice to say about it is it's not as likely to leap out and zap you as stuff up in the tens of thousands, but it's still plenty nasty and the damage it can do you'd probably never completely recover from (nerve damage, internal burns, muscle damage, external burns....) even if it doesn't kill you then and there.

I've seen dozens of men horribly burned in third rail accidents. These occur most often when trackmen accidently drag a shovel or fork or slip while pulling spikes or clips from rails, making contact with the third rail.

Since the running rails carry the propulsion return from the third rail, you must avoid contact with the running rail and the third rail. As the running rails and return are all grounded, any contact between the third rail and ground will also fry you. Same for contact between the third rail and the car body.

A good pair of dry shoes can save you hide, and many an ET (electric traction) electrician has used his boot to push an energized rail back into alignment. Not quite a smart chance to take as a wet boot or metal scrap stuck in the sole can kill.

Lazy employees stand or sit on the protection boards. Here a dangling key from a keychain on a belt can kill.

The same rules apply to all the 750 Volt things around the Railroad -- shoes, crossover leads, knife switches, etc.

What's often forgotten is the current carrying nature of the return circuit which is in the running rails. Here insulated joints, impedance bonds, return wires and normally docile stuff can carry the same current and voltage as the third rail. Transmission problems can put current between them and ground.

This is why the safety rule was written that tells employees not to step on the running rail. Unfortunately, that one's often overlooked.

Clem

On January 20, 2004, in a state of extreme depression, I attempted to commit suicide by standing barefoot on the running rail and third rail. Why I am alive today I can only attribute to an act of divine providence.

When I stepped on the third rail I felt the current go through me. For whatever reasons it did not kill me. I have some theories, but I have no intention of trying them out.

Please, don't ever play around the third rail. There have been enough stories in the papers of people who have no been as lucky as me. Don't become a statistic.

Stuart

mp15ac wrote:On January 20, 2004, in a state of extreme depression, I attempted to commit suicide by standing barefoot on the running rail and third rail. Why I am alive today I can only attribute to an act of divine providence.

When I stepped on the third rail I felt the current go through me. For whatever reasons it did not kill me. I have some theories, but I have no intention of trying them out.

Please, don't ever play around the third rail. There have been enough stories in the papers of people who have no been as lucky as me. Don't become a statistic.

Stuart

If you put one foot on the running rail and one on the third rail, I would think that the current would miss your vital organs (primarially your heart), and therfore you survived. I hope some other equipment of yours didn't get too badly damaged!

If you simply put one foot over both rails, wouldn't you probably at worse injure your foot?

Also, is there the potential that if someone threw something under the third rails (in the fashion of you throwing something under your bed, but from the platform) that there could be some serious sparks or even short circuit? What would a 750V short circuit be like?

Paul, from your response it seems my question some how provoked you. I have no intention of “testing” what this person told me about the third rail. I thought if far safer to post a question here, and from the responses received, it seems nothing is black and white.
Thank you Clemuel, for your experience in answering my question.

RKL,

It's my pleasure. If you have any other questions, I'd be glad to answer or will refer them to someone who knows more about this than I.

MP, I didn't check the records but I hope the burns you suffered did not require too much grafting and that the scars aren't too ugly. There are plenty of folks I know who suffered that fate, and they weren't barefoot and never intended to touch the thing.

Glad you're still with us. Will your lawsuit affect my pension?

Clem