The End of Hooping at Patchogue PD Tower

Thats made perfictly clear

Specifics aren't different, Henry. You can have a thousand Conductors on the train and it won't move unless an Engineer is behind the throttle, PERIOD. That scenario is not degrading their craft at all, it just proves a point. On most freight railroads, Conductors and Engineers can swap because they are both Engine qualified. This is not the case on the LIRR.

Bingdude, when a Conductor or other qualified employee copies or receives paperwork, they have to personally deliver it to the Engineer. That doesn't mean read it to the Engineer, it means give him the paperwork. Both the Conductor and Engineer must be aware of the paperwork they have, but first and foremost, it concerns the guy on the head end.

Joe

emfinite wrote:Bingdude, when a Conductor or other qualified employee copies or receives a train order, they have to personally deliver it to the Engineer. That doesn't mean read it to the Engineer, it means give him the paperwork. Both the Conductor and Engineer must be aware of the paperwork they have, but first and foremost, it concerns the guy on the head end.

Joe

Perhaps I am misunderstanding you, Joe, but are you saying that a conductor has to deliver the orders up to the engineer even when he/she receives a copy also, or does the personal delivery only apply to orders given via the radio?

emfinite wrote:Specifics aren't different, Henry. You can have a thousand Conductors on the train and it won't move unless an Engineer is behind the throttle, PERIOD. That scenario is not degrading their craft at all, it just proves a point. On most freight railroads, Conductors and Engineers can swap because they are both Engine qualified. This is not the case on the LIRR.

Bingdude, when a Conductor or other qualified employee copies or receives paperwork, they have to personally deliver it to the Engineer. That doesn't mean read it to the Engineer, it means give him the paperwork. Both the Conductor and Engineer must be aware of the paperwork they have, but first and foremost, it concerns the guy on the head end.

Joe

The mincing of words and mixing of meanings are clouding the answers. So is the so called "generation gap". I am answering from the point of veiw of railroading as being operated by a specified chain of command as outlined in the book of rules, operating timetable (employees timetable), bulliten orders (under the signature of the general manager), and train orders and with definition of work also embedded in union rules and contracts. In other words, tradition. And everything was very specific and all spelled out so that there were no questions. I often see where today's younger railfans don't understand what's going on because of not knowing or understanding these traditional ways of railroading and how today operations are offshoots, amendments, and adaptations of these old rules. The politics of anti unionism often floats in without an understanding of just what the unions did for both the railroader and the railroad and how today was arrived at through these efforts, too. I see the bashing of a man because he is of one craft or another and does not or cannot move over to another craft at an instant notice. The brotherhood of unionism while being "I'm protected" also allowed for a railroader to say he would not take a job away from a fellow railroader. The mechanics of the words and paragraphs are one thing, but the spirit of the operation and its people is quite another. The simplist advice I can give to those who don't understand what several of us oldtimers have said, what rules and contracts and timetables and procdures are that we are talking about, please read a few histories, an old fashion book of rules and employee timetables, and listen to the long time and old time railroaders tell about it. Then you can probably better understand what we are saying by stripping yourself of todays values. (I am not condmening todays values or taking political sides or debating old and new.)

Kyle,

The crew member who copies paperwork is decided and discussed amongst that crew in their job briefing.

The rules forbid any qualified employee, including a Conductor, from copying any form of written instruction (Train order, A, C, K or S card) while they are behind the controls of a moving train. They may only do so at a stop. That also pertains to Conductors on the end of a train that is being shoved since they have the ability to dump the train.

If the Conductor copies any paperwork, it must be personally delivered to the Engineer. This does not pertain to paperwork that was received by both C&E, like you asked.

Joe

Thanks for the quick response, Joe. I figured that was the case, but at the same time, it can't hurt to ask, right?