The developmental influences of the Railroad on the island

Hello to all railfans out there,

For the most part I sit passively on this forum, just watching all the great posts, but the time has come for me to ask for a big helping hand.

For School, in order to graduate we must choose a senior project. It is sort of the equivalent to a master’s thesis. Since I would like to major in history, and railroads have always been a passion of mine I have decided to choose the LIRR as my topic

The topic of my senior project is; The Developmental influences of the Railroad on the island. It is my argument that the island would still be a rural cape-cod like place w/o the railroad.

The only problem with doing the project on a topic as specific as this one is that it has been hard for me to locate online sources. I know of only few LIRR websites that have real info. So I have been forced to do it the old-fashioned way, in the Smithtown Library taking as many notes as possible in a given day from the History of the Long Island Railroad and the 7 part collection by Vincent Seyfried. I have also looked at the 100th Anniversary book, but it is of no real help. It is my attention to focus on the major areas of the island that saw a direct growth from the railroad. So far I have these points to talk about:
Flatbush
Jamaica
Far Rockaway
Montauk
Greenport
Hicksville
Garden City
Kings Park (hospital)

If there is anyone out there that can point me in the right direction or help me, it would be greatly appreciated.

I sent you a private message.

There's an online version of the Brooklyn Eagle from 1841-1902 that you can use for research.

http://eagle.brooklynpubliclibrary.org/ ... igator.asp

Among the many areas of growth directly related to the railroad (both the LIRR and its former rivals) should be the LI beach areas: Manhattan Beach, Brighton Beach, Coney Island, the Rockaways, Steeplechase Park, Seaside, Long Beach, Canarsie, the Hamptons, etc.

The railroad carried hundreds of thousands of hot New Yorkers to and from the beaches for decades. Service was so intense during the summer seasons that many times trains ran on 5-10 minute headway!

Many of these beach communities developed into the urban areas they are today as a result.

Dave Keller

Another good place to start is the growth period from 1946 to about 1976, the twenty year post WW-2 building boom. Most of the communities on the island expanded in that time frame. I am amazed to see pictures showing the differance in the areas surounding LIRR RoW in as little as a five year time span.

Interesting how population expansion continued heavy along the Port Jeff and Montauk lines, but failed to keep pace on the Main line east of KO. IIRC, communities expanded at a much slower pace east of Ronkonkoma. I wonder if train service (or lack of it) had an influence?

You may also check population growth figures for pre LIRR service to Penn Station and post service to Penn. It would be interesting to extrapolate the growth numbers of pre Penn Station Long Island and project them 100 years to the current time, and compare them with todays actual population numbers.
Good luck and would you consider posting your report for us here on RR.NET?

If I could name the one most important influence, it would be the post-war boom of suburban housing developments. What used to be potato fields was sold off to developers. THe LIRR was mass transportation of post-war Daddies heading into NYC in the day and hustling home at night. Even the makeup of trains changed as the life styles of those men changed. Smoking cars were distributed, bar cars thrived as social drinking wrought havoc on what was supposed to be the ideal family environments. Freight diminished as fewer and fewer priviate business shipped by rail. The railroad responded to the LI Distressway. Stations shrank or disappeaerd entirely. Electrification will be the next development, with faster trains and a limited amount of space on the highways. Amazing topic. THis will be fun to read about.

Port Washington owes its growth to the RR.

Good thing you have Garden City. It's probably the town that owes the most to the RR(actually, they owe nothing to the LIRR. They were built by the Central Railroad of Long Island, part of which is now the Hempstead line from Floral Park to Franklin Av in Garden City...and the central branch from Bethpage to Babylon).

Nimby, wasn't it the other way around? I think Mr Stewart built the Central RR in order to transport his employees back and forth to the garment factory he had in the city....

With an extension crossing the LIRR to what later became known as the Nassau Brick Works at Bethpage to be able to transport his bricks for construction BACK TO Garden City and nearby environs.

Dave Keller

Retroboy,

I'm curious what school you are going to. I went to Stony Brook and minored in History (Major=Engineering). When I finished the minor I had to do a semester long project on a historical topic of my choice. Since I was working with a professor very much into the History of Technology, I chose "The Introduction of Diesel Locomotion". Wouldn't you know it: "Diesels of The Sunrise Trail" made it into my research. (Much more fun going to Willis Hobbies for "research" than the Stony Brook library!)

Go back to the SUNY @ Stony Brook library and check out Bob Emery's collection: LIRR maps, photos, timetables, facts, data, memoirs, etc.

Fantastic stuff.

Wish I still lived there to go see it all!

Too bad it wasn't there when I attended (class of 1974). I'd have never got any schoolwork done!

Dave Keller

I would like to thank you all for your help; I will have to venture over to Stony Brook this week.
The Brooklyn Eagle web site was also a big help.

So far I was going to break it into 3 Parts:

The early development of the RR (North, Central, Southside)
The post World War Two era
The electrification to Ronkonkoma


Srnumber9,
I currently go to Smithtown High school. In the fall I will be going to Buffalo state, Plattsburgh, or the Virginia Military Institute to major in history

all hands:

i need some more help. i am having some problems finding documents or news clipings about the electrification to RO. if anyone would be able to give me any dates of newsday articles or things along that line, it would be of great help.

If you mean to Ronkonkoma, third rail was activated on 12/12/87 at 12:10 am.

I photographed the notification sign the day before activation.

Check Newsday issues from 12/12/87 and prior for info leading up to and covering the electrification.

Good luck!

Dave Keller

I am not near my collection of schedules, but I seem to recollect it was Nov. of 1988 or 89. I remember LIRR planners saying that they wanted to finish in time for it to be a Christmas present to Al D'Amato. I also seem to remember that it was around 1983 when the LIRR suddenly agreed with the Long Island Regional Planning Board that the Main Line should be electrified before the Port Jefferson. I recall that the change happened when the LIRR got a new president, perhaps McIver, who saw that the Main Line was a low ridership line with a lot of potential, and the PJ was a high ridership branch with little potential for growth or speed.

Suggestion: ask your county legislator (Nowick or Kennedy) if they can get you in to see the county planning department's library. They have a couple of shelves of reports on the LIRR.