Taking Pictures on NJT Now Requires Permit

This is absurd, apparently the terrorists are winning by taking our constitutional rights

I like to post my NJT photographs on the internet, so I must refrain from signing a photography permission form.

http://www.subwayspot.com/gallery/album50

What is a good place on the NEC to take pictures that is not NJT/AMT property to take pictures. I would prefer a place where you can take pictures from both directions of travel.

Many places outside New Jersey. Four of my favorites are in Philly:

South Street bridge( morning, mid day):

http://community.webshots.com/photo/225 ... JbkeGOQpGi

http://community.webshots.com/photo/225 ... yXluvQKYzk

Chestnut Street and Walnut Street (afternoon):

http://community.webshots.com/photo/587 ... 9995IuMoAU

http://community.webshots.com/photo/587 ... 2967lyDbgV

Wheatsheaf Lane footbridge:

http://community.webshots.com/photo/225 ... QlhfaizZvj

http://community.webshots.com/photo/793 ... 6021DJQhkz

North Philly station:

http://community.webshots.com/photo/587 ... 0947tjkMSX

http://community.webshots.com/photo/587 ... 1773tyqlQL

Bob

3. I shall limit equipment to one 35 mm, or equivalent-sized, camera.

That's nuts. I routinely use a 120 camera, and I have designs on a 4x5 inch field camera. My 120 camera is smaller than my 35mm camera, which is smaller than my digital camera. So, what does this nonsense mean? I can't use my 120 camera? The field camera is right out, that's for sure.

What a load of *&#^!

This whole thing stinks like a mound of, well, never mind. If the ACLU actually gets involved on the right side, that would be a great thing. As someone said, I never thought I'd cheer on the ACLU, but...

Check out the front page of the Sunday Burlington County Times for a great article on the current problems of railfanning especially the now public statement of an NJT spokesperson, Janet Hines, that permits, after all, are NOT required to take photos from OFF NJT property. I am going to laminate this article and keep it in my truck in case some officious NJT gendarme does not know the policy. I urge all railfans in NJ to do the same. Thanks to Kathy Cannon of the BCT, the ACLU and all the rail fans who have bombarded NJT on this issue. Had we not done this a very dangerous precedent could have been established.

My interpretation of the 35mm language is that it is intended to prohibit a very large camera setup such as used in a professional photoshoot. Note that it provides "35mm or equivalent" and not 35mm or smaller. 120 size cameras are 'equivalent' a 4x5 view camera might not be, as they are typically much larger.

It appears that NJT has offered a reasonable accomodation; the agency could have banned all photography but chose to permit it under certain conditions.

Sorry guys, I forgot to post the address for the BCT news article on NJT permits.

http://www.phillyburbs.com/pb-dyn/news/ ... 08723.html

Insert URL:
http://www.phillyburbs.com/pb-dyn/news/ ... 08723.html

dcwarner:
was that you taking pics at West Side ave last saturday about 3ish? I heard in on the scanner....I was at LSP station, 2 secs later I was called in on the radio!

I am writing a letter to the NJTPD Chief, and Warrington about this silliness. Copy will go to to the Burl Co Times chick. Is there anyone else I should send a copy to at NJT/ or other places?

JLo wrote:O/T, but I noticed a marked uptick in security yesterday morning. National guard troops were posted at all Turnpike entrances and exits, and police "Hercules" type teams seemed more evident outside the federal court building in Philly. Anyone notice more activity recently, despite the statements that the terror alert would not be raised?

When I flew to London last week, the security at Newark and my flight in particular was several times tighter than I've ever seen. It was un-nerving to be honest how much there was and the number of people involved.

All this talk about no photo's made me paranoid when I was over there so I didn't take many train photos even though you are allowed. I didn't even get the Eurostar train I was on. The only anti-photo notice I saw was one electronic sign that said "No Flash Photography on the Platform" Some tourist must have blinded an engineer.

There was a very quick blurb in todays Daily News (or was it the Post, no I think it was the News) Anywho, mentioned a few instances, one where a group of people were chased out or away from taking photographs, and they then came back and tried to bribe their way back to take pics and/or video and one where two people were questioned while "railfanning" and as it turns out they were on the FBI's watched list.

Ive said it before, adn will say it again, there is more going on than many people here know about....there are more stories like this that are reported and some that aren't reported. And I don't know all the stories, or even if they are all true, but I have heard of these above ones and a few others in recent months, and, well, based on that, i don't have a problem with stepped up patrols.

Again, my life and safety and that of those of the passengers of NJT and other railroads and those who live near the railroad weighs much more heavily than that of the "right" to photograph trains........

Jtgshu wrote:...my life and safety....weighs much more heavily than that of the "right" to photograph trains

Frankly Mr. J, I think the rights and freedom in general of people are more important. What is your life worth if you have Big Brother watching over you at all times telling you when and where you will do things? No way can they cover all 60-odd miles of NEC trackage in NJ. If a TH wants snap a photo of your run up and down the line, he's gonna do it. What them in the end is the purpose of NJTPD getting a hard of someone taking a picture of a passing AEM7 on the platform at Rahway?

JTgshu: I don't want to start a flaming war on this forum but for heavens sake will you plase step back from the keyboard and look at what you wrote." Todays Daily News or was it the Post" (no link). " A few instances" a "group of people" two people "questioned" on FBI's watched(sic) list, "more going on" "more stories like this", " some reported, some aren't reported" (How do we know about "unreported" incidents, anyway ? ), "don't know all the stories or even if they are true, " I've heard of these". It is postings like this confirm and spread the most unfounded stories imaginable. Take just one that you posted here about the railfans questioned who were found to be on the FBI's Watch List. How did this story come about ? Who made the determination that a railfan was on the Watch List ? NJT police, Amtrak Police, the CIA ? How did they obtain this information ? How many thousands of names are on that list ? What do you have to do to get onto that list ? For all I know I am on that list for writing about rail security on this message board. Please stop and think about this. I get stopped by the police ( just as I did last Saturday in Pennsauken, NJ ). How does HE know who is on the FBI's massive Watch List ? I have no doubt that the terrorists want to hit rail facilities but what is the connection between photography and terror attacks ? Did the 9/11 attackers take photos of 737's prior to their assault ? Anything the terrorists need to know about attacking trains can be obtaind from standing on a platform or riding the rails and simply observing , unobtrusively, day to day operations as fare paying passengers. WE are not the problem and I don't like being scapegoated by the authorities who probably cannot prevent such an attack but are looking, desperately in some cases, for something, anything, to make the public think that genuine and effective rail security is possible. Anyway, the bottom line is to please be careful about what "news stories" get repeated and get credibility.

Well, Jt does have a point though. I myself will continue rail photography as I am sure many others will on this board. But, there are convievably terrorists engaging in the same activity as railfans. While it may not be widespread and all, it concievably does, has and will happen. The cops and all are doing their job. Yes, they do cross the line sometime and this line crossing should stop but I think they should still go on questioning individuals. Yes, we're not a threat but they are. And sometimes, they may have trouble determining if we are a threat or just engaging in a hobby.

My advice, go west young man! :D (on the M&E, Coast Line, RVL etc.) That's what I do and I ain't been stopped yet. Sure, I still take pictures on the east side to (but not in NYP) but I use caution and discretion. It is all part of the age we live in. Its not going to change anytime soon so we might as well get used to it.

No, I don't remember which paper it was (im almost positive it was the News), I posted the above post after a long day of work, and didn't feel like searching the internet for the exact link, if the quick blurb was even posted online....i appologize for my lack of certainty. If anyone read the Daily News yesterday, they might have seen it, it was a small like 2 inch by 4 inch article on the upper right hand side of the page. Ill try to find a copy of it today

However, the fact is I read the article, and that was the gist of it. There are things that I know, because I work for the railroad, that have not been reported in the press. There have been other incidents reported, and I will NOT report the details of them, because in my eyes, its sensitive information, and not to be reported in a public forum to prove a point. As with anything on the railroad (and other places), stories get exaggerated sometimes, but in most cases, there is a grain of truth somewhere in the story. Even if there isn't any truth to them, there COULD be, and that can't be ignored and dismissed.

Right after 3/11, Ive had to search my train for suspicious people after a call from Dispatch after getting reports that a few people had pictures of trains and tunnels and stations on a laptop and were discusssing things. Do you have any idea how hard that was for me to do? Do you konw the thoughts running through my head? Sure, it could have been a few railfans just looking at pictures or it could have been a much more sinister reason. The a sample of the thoughts goign through my head were, 1, if the train were to blow up, we are in a good location, out in the middle of nowhere, no houses or anythign nearby (between NB and PJ), call dispatch, stop traffic on adjacent tracks, so the escapees don't get hit by an Acela at 135, how to get people off the train, do i have the number of dispatch on my telephone, should we uncouple the train from the damaged part and pulll the okay part away, overhead wires:, where are they, are they still up, or on the train, what kind of bomb, explosive or dirty, our exact location, how many people could die, approx how many people are on the train, oh the list went on and on as im trying to look at all these "normal" people seeing if any one of them looks as if they are trying to blow me and everyone else on the train to bits. As it turned out, me adn my crew never found anyone suspicious, but the police had an idea that the person might have gotten off in Edison, and by the time we got the call to check, it was too late and they were off already.

Dinky, I would much rather be able to have big brother watch over me, than not be around for big brother to watch. You make it sound like I am concerned for my life and that is a selfish thing.....im sorry, but in my eyes, yes it is a selfish thing...I sort of like living here on this thing we call Earth, and its my job, on my train to get sometimes a thousand people home safely. I take responsibility for their lives when they step on board. Excuse me for having concern for them and myself.

I don't necessarily agree with what some NJTPD and other railroad and even local officers are doing and I do think in some cases, it is a form of harassment, but I don't have a problem at all with them checking people out who are lineside. Overzealous cops are taking things to an extreme. Check the ID and run plates, okay, if it checks out, "have a good day, stay away from the tracks. Call us if you notice anything suspicous"

But I don't think some people understand the severity of this situation and don't realize that things are not the same as they were, esepcially after 3/11. The railroad is a TREMENDOUS terrorist target, and a very easy target with hundreds of thousands of miles of unprotected railroad, and very easy and accessable ways to cause harm, both on and off passegner trains. For example, a person is standing lineside next to their car. A simple railfan right?? Or is it a terrorist with prybars in his car getting ready to remove spikes from the ties to derail the next train that passes......Extreme example? Not really, its happened twice to passenger trains, the latest in the Mid 90's in the middle Arizona to the Sunset Limited.