Superliner Replacement Request For Proposal Released

The main reason they've preferred 4-axle locomotives is simple - lower fuel costs. Hauling around the extra weight of additional axles, traction motors, and carbody length when the service you're using the locomotive in doesn't need to have the additional axles, traction motors, and carbody length burns a lot more fuel. That's the same reason why even freight railroads preferred using 4-axle high-horsepower locomotives on hot intermodal trains (examples - Conrail's B40-8 fleet, Santa Fe's GP60's/B40-8W's, etc.).

jwhite07 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 03, 2024 4:50 pm Where on the Amtrak national system outside of the NEC or other Amtrak-owned lines do trains operate at 125MPH? Nowhere that I am aware of... max passenger speeds usually top out at maybe 90mph, and in most places less than that.

Well I was talking about leasing freight units - not Amtrak ordering a freight based unit re-geared for passenger use. Whenever Amtrak borrows freight engines due to a locomotive failure they usually are limited to 70 MPH - so if they leased freight units as suggested (also assuming of course the freights are happy to oblige) . Not a massive difference from 79 MPH but for a two night route like the Empire Builder you'd probably still have to add about an hour to the timetable. Would be a more significant hit on a route like the Chief where you have some 90 MPH running. You've also got those new 110 MPH stretches on the St. Louis route. And it would essentially preclude improving any track beyond 79 MPH for any of this future stuff being talked about - and there is future potential. Virginia and North Carolina are talking significant upgrades on the RF&P as well as the S line all the way down to Raleigh with the potential for greater than 79 MPH speeds. I would imagine CSX will want Amtrak to route its long distance trains as far as they can on passenger only tracks and get them off their tracks. Amtrak may still want to send the Palmetto and Meteor down the A line so it can continue to serve Rocky Mount but sending the Star down the new passenger corridor all the way to Raleigh is a no brainer - so there's potential for a pretty significant distance with speeds greater than 79 MPH if the states make all the investments. All this is pretty much a moot point anyway. Amtrak is not moving away from the ALC 42s - they've ordered 125 of them. And the Airo trainsets that are basically going to run all the corridor services will essentially have them as well. Amtrak has no choice but to fix whatever the issues are and get the reliability up - even if it eventually requires some design modifications. Whatever it takes - and however much they have to hold Siemens feet to the fire.

Tadman wrote: ↑Wed Jan 03, 2024 12:12 pm

RandallW wrote: ↑Sun Dec 24, 2023 8:30 am Are there switches that allow HEP on a car to be disconnected such that it would be possible to to safely connect an engine or other car while HEP is on in the car, but the cables are not live where a trainman is working? I'm kind of under the impression the answer is "no", but I'm also under the impression that steam heating lines did have valves that would enable that kind of disconnection?

In the past I have advocated that Amtrak go to leased freight motors and HEP in baggage cars. People thought I was crazy.

Here's another good reason: If you have to swap power at Albany or Spokane, you keep the lights and heat on. If you have to split an entire train like on 48/49 or 7/8, you can have a baggage at either end with HEP powering the two sections which are never connected at midpoint.

It will not matter in the world of blue flag or three step protection. If someone is going in between the cars to get angle cocks the juice will need to be shut down. God forbit a loose or frayed cable is in there and you make contact. Poof toast.

Period, end of sentence, no argument, finished.

Ken W2KB wrote: ↑Sun Dec 24, 2023 3:58 pm Amtrak head end power is 480 volts AC three phase, diodes can't be used as diodes would only work for DC power.

Is a short outage for switching HEP--> GND PWR, and later GND PWR--> HEP unacceptable? There's battery backup for some lighting, I assume.

Amtrak has a bastard child of a road locomotive. Go look at LA, Chicago, New York/New Jersey, New Orleans.

What do you see on the Class 1s? Modern 6 motor locomotives. A mechanic or electrician on CSX can just as easily fix his roads equipment as he can NS, BNSF, or UP.

The Genesis units are old now. Amtrak will need new units with this car order. Better they buy what the Class 1s do. As the Class 1s also do, put the HEP in a baggage car. Passenger railroads did that since the 1930s.

The time for that has come and gone. Amtrak has ordered 125 new Siemens ALC 42 passenger locomotives and #50 is about to be released. And another bunch has been ordered as part of the “Airo trainsets.” Basically the Genesis units all have replacements in the pipeline. There’s no going back at this point.

John_Perkowski wrote: ↑Thu Jan 04, 2024 7:11 pm As the Class 1s also do, put the HEP in a baggage car. Passenger railroads did that since the 1930s.

Colonel, SIR

"Been there done that" these puppies often didn't bark.

Not fun riding in a then-brand new A-I with no lights and either hot or cold. There was no access to the car from the train; all one could do was "hold out" until 30th St, Penn, or New Haven and there was an Electrician who maybe could get it fired up again - only to have it die as soon as that station saw markers.

Interesting discussion, but a bit far afield. Should I split the topic or let it ride?

Let it ride. It's somewhat intertwined new cars new power new tech.....

Sent from my SM-S911U using Tapatalk

It's entirely possible that new consists would require newer engines to haul it. Remember, the AutoTrain is a loooong consist, and I won't be surprised if it's a three engine deal.

The ALC42's have 200KW more head end power than the Genesis units. One reason for this is Amtrak was interested in increasing the max number of passenger cars for the Auto Train.

lordsigma12345 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 05, 2024 2:33 pm The ALC42's have 200KW more head end power than the Genesis units. One reason for this is Amtrak was interested in increasing the max number of passenger cars for the Auto Train.

I thought the limiting factor was the inter car cables?
There's smarter ways of dealing with hep, with the cost of lithium batteries and inverters dropping, each car could have its own power system, controlling the amount drawn off the hep at any one time.
The new cars will have more efficient hvac systems anyway, so hep requirements should drop.

There may be other limitations - but that was cited as one of the main reasons they upped the HEP capacity of the new locos.

STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Fri Jan 05, 2024 11:26 am It's entirely possible that new consists would require newer engines to haul it. Remember, the AutoTrain is a loooong consist, and I won't be surprised if it's a three engine deal.

A little surprised Auto Train doesn't use a DPU Put 1 unit in front of the auto racks. If full this could be heavy part of the train?

lordsigma12345 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 05, 2024 9:47 pm There may be other limitations - but that was cited as one of the main reasons they upped the HEP capacity of the new locos.

As understood . The ALCs HEP inverter is the same as either one of the HEP inverters in ACS-64s. A common part makes parts a easier operation. On that thought what HEP inverter unit is on the new AX-2s? Does each power car have one?