Sunrise Trail Chapter meeting this Friday - 4/21

Posted on the PRR Modeling list... wish I could make it.

This Friday night, April 21 at 8 p.m. there will be a special 40th anniversary meeting of the Long Island Sunrise Trail Chapter of the National Railway Historical Society in Babylon.

The featured guest speaker will be James Dermody, President of the LIRR who will give a short presentation and will conduct a Q and A session afterwards.

Following that will be a special LIRR slideshow by renowned photographer, author and publisher, Weekend Chief's John Scala. The show will consist of slides of the LIRR from the steam era up to the MTA period.

Bob Meyers, a manager and avid railfan of the LIRR will also show some of his favorite slides of the railroad also.

All info and directions to the meeting hall are at this link:
http://www.nrhs-list.org

This is a must see show for LIRR fans!

BTW if anyone can make it, please ask Mr Scala about a revised Diesels of the Sunrise Trail. He mentioned to me two years ago that he was working on it, but nothing has appeared.

Boy, do I wish I still lived on LI for this meeting!!!

When you see Bob Myers, tell him "hi" for me. Bob and I are good friends and I've known him for over 20 years. We regularly stay in touch.

If Ray Kenney should show up, tell him I said "hi" as well! We were fellow members of the NRHS/LIST 36+ years ago.

Some of the other members back then were Rod Dirkes, Bob Sturm (timetable dept.), George Votava, Ed Hermanns, Ron Zinn, Art Huneke (block opr), Harold Faerberg (block opr) (Mispelled on purpose. Add a "g" after FA: this stupid program won't print certain word combinations!!!!), Frank Zahn (freight brakeman), Vincent Seyfried, Bob Michele, Ed Koehler, Ed Gloeggler, Richard Glueck, Thomas Johnston (Penn Sta. info booth), Arthur "Buzz" Lubitz (ticket and freight clerk), Carl Waswo, Gene Collora (RF of E) and many others who I hope I haven't offended by having forgotten their names after all these years!!!

Also the infamous and nefarious Ron Ziel. . .

It was a big bunch of members back then!!!

Dave

Why is Ron Ziel "infamous and nefarious"???? Wasn't he one of the premier LIRR historians and writers??

While he was an author and LIRR historian, he was a cheat and a swindler and a conniver and backstabber and. . . Wait . . I have to dig out my Thesaurus. . . .

Anybody who was anything in this hobby can tell you they had nothing but crap dealing with him. Myself included.

So . . . mix youself a nice tall drink or get a 6-pack of Heineken and a nice recliner chair, clear your calendar for the next 2+ hours and I'll tell you some crap that the younger guys don't know . . . . . .

I HATE when people react as though he's some sort of god!!!!!!! He was just another snake-oil salesman out to make whatever money he could. His LIRR photo collection just happened to be one of the means to that end. And he acquired the major portion of it from an elderly man who was the LIRR's insurance photographer from the 1920s into the 1940s.

Ziel will tell you to your face that he swindled the guy out of the collection. He's not in the least bit embarassed about it. And that was just the start . . .

It wasn't about the hobby.

It wasn't about the railroad.

It wasn't about the history.

It was all about the money. One get-rich-quick-scheme after another.

Dave

Dave:

I to was a member of the chapter and knew most of the folks mentioned in your e-mail. I wish I could be there tonight also.

Strong words about Mr. Zeil, but from my many friends on LI, I have heard the same thing.

Ray Jensen
Ft. Myers, FL.

Hi Ray:

The words are strong because I have personal reasons to be angered.

I was told some years later that he was asked to leave the chapter.

Then he got involved in the early attempts at restoration of #39 and was asked to leave that group as well.

Great track record for such a "revered historian!"

Dave

Dave, i was a member around the same time you were and rememebr that cast of people as well. I am a friend of Ed Koehler and also of Ray Kenny. His dad was a sponsor for me into the local FD. I left the group because of a few things, mostly about the 35 I think. No progress, etc.

And i was at Eisenhower park a few times trying to preserve the 35. Even then it seemed like we were going no where. 35 was the longest running preservation going, but the new group has made a lot of progress.

Btw i have a copy of steel rails signed by Ron Zeil, He did it at a meeting for me. Wonder if its worth anything?
I still have the small booklet he (Ed) wrote about LIRR steel cars and the numbers etc. I could scan it and email it to you if you dont have a copy.

Hi All,

I also have a copy of Ron Ziel's book and have read it many times. As I writer, I really enjoyed what he had to say as well as his photographs. Brought back many memories and created some new ones.

Did not know him personally, and believe it or not, there are many people that have not heard of him. Hearing that to know him was NOT to love him does not either surprise me or anger me. One does not get to know someone, personally, through their writings.

Living in Southern California, it has been my pleasure to get to meet and chat with many movie stars. Some fit into Ziel's class. On the screen they are fantastic, in person, NEXT !!! One particular one comes to mind, this fellow could only hold a conversation about himself. Talk about narcissim.

On the other hand I had the extreme pleasure of spending a morning with Clayton Moore, the LONE RANGER. Talk about a fantastic personality and a true gentleman. The wife and kids had to pull me away from him, and the others. He told story after story of how some episodes were made and some of the "Whoops" that had to be re-shot.

Hi BobLI.

Small world, I guess! Do you remember me at that time? If so, contact me off forum at [email protected]

Maybe I remember you, too.

Thanks for your offer. I DO, however, have a copy of Ed's wonderful roster and I use it regularly.

Pennsy:

Good story!

Some people are just nice, down-to-earth people. Then there are the prima-donnas!

I remember meeting Henry Fonda once at the Mineola Playhouse. He was the nastiest man I ever met up until that time. Refused to give autographs to the high school students seeing his play, actually pushed some away and wouldn't even talk to any of them. Kind of like todays baseball personalities!

Dave

Hi Dave,

So that is where daughter, Jane Fonda, got it. Not too hard to believe. I have friends that knew of her exploits during the Viet Nam war and they could spend hours ragging on her, and how she really did a number on American troops.

The only thing I remember reading concerning that aspect of Ron Ziel was that he went to some RR show, and was CHARGING for signing his books. I hang out at Borders from time to time, when there are book signings, I have never seen or heard of any author except Ron Ziel that charged to sign his or her book. Did he, at least, date his signature ?

Jane Fonda . . . yeah . . another Wunderkind! Makes you think that some people should seriously consider sterilization.

Apple doesn't fall far from the tree . . . .

I had Ziel autograph my copies of his book just so there would be a future value added to them.

It was done against my better judgment. I had "Steel Rails" for about 20 years before I agreed to let him autograph it. Why? Because when I met him at an NRHS/LIST meeting once back around 1969, I brought the book to the meeting and asked him to autograph it for me and he refused unless I trade him my 1st edition for his newly-released 2nd edition.

Putz!

And, no, he did not date his autographs.

For that matter, I don't date mine either unless someone specifically asks for it. I've only had 1 person request it. I didn't think it was all that mportant to be dated, just that the signature was there.

After all . . . if someone is going to forge a signature, it's just as easy to forge the date as well.

I can see him charging for his autograph at a book signing. That was a prime example of the way he was. As I said, it was ALL about the money.

I spent over $200 of my OWN money (no help from my publisher) for AMTRAK fare from Orlando to Penn Station and return, plus my LIRR fare to and from Holtsville, to attend two (2) book signings held in my honor at the RMLI in Riverhead and at Twin Forks Chapter/NRHS at Greenberg held at Hofstra. Then there was the cost of using my mother's car and the gas. Also the cost of food while I was up there.

I didn't even THINK about trying to pass any of that expense off onto anyone.

That's the difference between someone who does this for the LOVE of it and someone who is strictly mercenary.

When his "Long Island Rail Road in Early Photographs" came out, I ordered from him an autographed copy. When it arrived he said I could have it. I said thanks and mailed him a check anyway.

Didn't want any favors. BTW: He DID NOT return my check! He cashed it.

He's since been selling photos from MY archive on e-bay. I know he's been doing that for years at train shows, with me here in Florida, he figured I'd never find out. But, I DO have my "snitches!"

But just TRY to use one of his photos and he starts screaming "copyright violation."

I''ve gotta tell you: ALL his photos say "Copyright Ron Ziel" on their backs. I asked him once about the copyright and he said he just puts that on the back to discourage anyone from using his stuff. He wouldn't pay for a copyright. That would cost money.

Many years ago, someone had a huge collection of glass plate negatives of steam locomotives of the NYO&W, taken around 1910. They donated them to Ziel as they heard he was a historian and asked him only one thing: to preserve them.

The following month later, he was selling them in the "For Sale" section at the back of TRAINS Magazine.

This angered MANY people who were involved in that deal, especially my late friend and retired LIRR conductor Jeff Skinner (of Trainman's Trio fame) who connected the parties involved and who, previously, got Ziel lots of really old LIRR items, by connecting him with many old-time LIRR veterans who started their service in the 1880s and 1890s and who gave him tons of old stuff.

Jeff refused at that point to have any further dealings with Ziel.

Just one of many tales that can take hours.

Dave

Dave,

Ive heard about those stories you just mentioned. BTW, i have a pic given to me from Ed Koehler given to him by Jeff Skinner. Right now i'm not sure where its packed away, I recently moved and I still have boxes in closets, etc.

And a reprint collection of old timetables, etc. Its tough to move and have to pack things away, especially my model RR. One day I'll get some energy and build the room in the basement! Just need 2 things, time and money! LOL

Ill send you an offline soon.

The meeting was great and a lot of good information was discussed.

Yeah the meeting was great. A nice presentation & q&a session for over an hour by LIRR Pres James Dermody. John Scala (LIRR from 50s-60s with some rare shots) & Pete Lenz (LIST trips) had nice slide shows.

Dave, Bob Myers couldn't be there, they said he was working the second trick. Your earlier posting with many noted names was nice. I liked knowing the name & what they did on the LIRR, helps explain their expertise & how they got the photos they have. I remember from past meetings some of those mentioned, some have passed away & some have moved away. All the ones I got to talk to were always eager to share info & their memories.

As for the meeting, I meant to take a notebook for some notes but forgot it. But here's some general info. Mr Dermody is always eager to talk about the LIRR, he's been with it for over 47 hrs. Some of what he had to say was PR I'm sure, but alot was great info on how operating the RR is just a business.

Alot of what we discuss on this forum was talked about, & good explanations given on why things do or don't get done. Most have to do with $$$, some with politics & the public, others with justification from ridership.

A couple examples: They have included electrifying the Central Branch from Bethpage to Babylon in several budgets, but at some point something has to be cut & this is one of them. They have plans to build a yard east of Ronkonkoma & electrify out to it. Ronkonkoma yard is full & there's no room for expansion. There are lots of things to be considered before choosing a site (fed'l requirements, environmental concerns, property ownership, county/town/public/NIMBY input, etc). Part of this plan would be to double track from Farmingdale to Ronk. Also discussed was reverse travel from NYC to LI. The 3rd mainline track is needed for this. East end service on the Montauk would require a signal system east of Speonk. Dual mode service from other eastern points would require service facilities. He really discussed alot & I got a better understanding of the business side of it.

He also mentioned that the weekend of May 6-7 will be the cutover of the new signal system form PD to Speonk with colored signals. He personally wanted to keep the position lights but there were many reasons to go with color lights. PD tower will come down unless some entity wants to move it. He mentioned some discussions on that but nothing definite. Eventually the entire system will have the color lights.

All M1s will be gone by year end. #3100 was cut up (boo hoo). The LIRR will probably always have towers, whether they are manned or centrally controlled is still not decided. They plan on testing 4 quadrant crossing gates out near Speonk which require the new signal system due to having a delay in the opposing gates for motorist safety as the gates come down.

Arch St shop is leased to Bombardier for M7 warranty & retrofit work. Eastside access is going forward. The LIRR station will be a deep station, about 100ft down, with 2 4-track levels. LIRR will stay in Penn & not use the Farley building.

I think that's enough & about all I can remember right now. Taping the meeting would have been a good idea.