Sub Stations

Does anyone know the distance between sub-stations? How far is the DC current effective? Its seems to be around a mile, mile and a half....My other questions was how come the sub-station in Mineola is so large, this station was built way before the electrification of the main line past Nassau Tower...Thank-you before hand...

The reason for Mineola having a large substation is probably due to the fact that electrification didn't just stop at Mineola at that time.

While third rail was extended to Mineola from Floral Park in October, 1926, it also extended at the same time from Mineola all the way down to "HC" tower in Garden City/CLP.

Freight sidings on the Oyster Bay branch were electrified to East Williston between 1928 and 1930 as were the freight sidings between Mineola and "HC" tower.

The main passenger tracks from Mineola to East Williston were given juice in June, 1934.

So . . . . the sub-station covered a lot of territory.

While electrification extended from Floral Park to "HC" tower in Garden City/CLP in May, 1908, 3rd rail was extended from Countrty Life Press to Franklin Ave. in Garden City around 1911 or 1912 to allow MU baggage cars access to the Doubleday plant.

Electrification connected from Valley Stream to Franklin Avenue, Garden City on 10/19/26 making a complete circle and, effective with the timetable of October, 1926, the 1st through MU operations went into effect between Mineola and Valley Stream.

Dave

If I am not mistaken you must have a substation every 2-3 miles with low-voltage DC. The third rail power dissipates over distance. Most importantly-each station must have a power substation nearby because trains draw the most power in amps starting up. Without adequate power,you would be able to stop but not restart. Hope this gives you a general idea. MACTRAXX

Most of the older sub-stations tend to be large not only because of the territory they served when originally built, but also due to the size of the Rotary Convertors that they housed. In addition, the size of the switches to isolate the power and the ability to change out these components and the convertors without disturbing components that were in working order required a lot of room.

Let's face it, land was cheap when they were built and they wanted the place to last a Century.

Mactraxx:

Roughly calculated on a map, the distance between the Mineola sub-station and the old site of "HC" tower at Garden City/CLP is approximately 1.25 miles (+/-), following the old ROW.

Using the same map measurement, the distance from the sub-station to East Williston is also approximately 1.25 miles (+/-)

Both well within the range of the Mineola sub-station based upon your 2-3 mile range of effectiveness.

Dave

Thank-you all, mucho appreciated....What about from HC east? The Hempstead sub-station would have helped with that whole central HC area. How far was the line electrified due east of HC? Off the wall ???, what are the dual wires on the older tracks for? Its not for the DC return, is it for signals? Did all tracks have them? Please excuse the off the wall ???, but re-booting reguires much inward PSI...

Anyone have any info on the LI sub in East New York? That one was tremendous, and much bigger than Mineola's. Does anyone know if they also may have fed the TA or the NY Connecting?

TIA...

Electrification extended east of "HC" crossing to Mitchel Field. Remember the 2-car MU shuttle from CLP would make that run up until all passenger service was shut down on the Central in 1953.

Dave

krispy...don't know about whether or not ENY Sub fed TA, but it is adjacent to the Canarsie line.

But, I can tell you that the facility is currently gutted...I did a 'tour' there a few years back...completely empty.

Dave, how fare did the eletrification extend past what was then salsbury park? was the central ever eletric to B interlocking. if not when that get pulled? I remembered hearing it was only eletric to the park for the shuttles.

From what Bob Emery's maps say, electrification extended as far as east of the Carman Avenue crossing, along which, it appears, Meadowbrook Hospital was located. Don't know if that's the same name in use today. Remember, his maps date from 1958.

If you look at the photo in Ziel's Victorian Stations book, you will see a shot of the old Salisbury Plains station with the new station under construction and an ex-Ocean Electric trolley is in service. While it has trolley poles, they are down as it operated off the third rail which is clearly visible in the photo.

Electrification lasted to the Carman's Road location until 1951. After 1951 it was cut back to just east of the old location of the low platform for Meadowbrook station (just east of the crossing at Mitchel Field station.)

This allowed for shuttle service to Mitchel Field.

It remained that way until shuttle passenger service stopped from CLP to Mitchel Field in 1953.

Dave

Thanks Dave, That cleared it up. does any one know when the tracks were cut back to carman ave? was that around the same time the 3rd raiil was laid to there?

Oh, and if any one is interested, I have walked some of the ROW between CLP/WM and there is some properities ectended right onto the ex track bed. and not only that, but it is really done up nice, one even has a gold fish pond.
what are the odd's that this expansion was baught from the LIRR?

Elsewhere in this forum there was a post about the new 3rd rail and it's sise. the old rockaway branch should still be littered with miles of the origional 3rd rail. if it dates back to the 19teens I do not know, but it is old.

Here's the breakdown of Central Branch track removal, starting at Bethpage Jct. and working west:

1. Central Branch connection at Bethpage Jct. removed: 1924-25 with renovation of Central branch to Babylon. End of track was just west of John Laurence Farm Road (road closed in 1940). This, BTW, was either the site, or near to the site of the original CRR station stop of "Bethpage Junction" which still remained on timetables with minimal passenger service until 1897.

2. Tracks cut back from this point to newly constructed Wantagh State Parkway - 1938-39. NO bridge was built for the railroad to cross the parkway and the tracks crossed at grade, but I gather they weren't in service. I have a photo taken in 1955 of the ROW crossing the parkway at grade after the tracks were removed and "newer" blacktop can be seen where the tracks crossed.

3. Tracks removed to the west side of Old Westbury Road - 1952

4. Tracks removed to west side of Meadowbrook Parkway - 1956 (This would include the Carman Ave. crossing.)

5. The Roosevelt Field spur was new in 1956.

6. As of Bob Emery's maps, electrification was still in place on these tracks as of 1959 when the maps were drawn. That allowed the Roosevelt Raceway MU trains to operate during 1956 and several years after. No idea when 3rd rail was finally removed from this portion. Perhaps sometime in the mid-1960s?

JJ Earl may know.

Anyone who has time to go through old ETTs during the 1960s can probably find in what year electrification was dropped from the General Instructions for the Central branch.

Dave

Okay . . Okay . . . you twisted my arm.

I looked it up.

ETT #8, effective 6/18/61 states electrification on the Garden City Secondary to extend from "Garden" to one train length east of Meadowbrook.

ETT #9, effective 6/3/62 no longer states this.

So . . . electrification was removed, probably by general order, sometime between 6/18/61 and the new ETT of 6/3/62.

You're welcome!

Dave

Thanks a lot dave. The bronze ceiling was the spur that runs behind where the Garden City DMV is, it also has a passing siding and a reverse switch into forturnoffs pick up building. Is his the spur that you say was added in ‘56?
The raceway spur is the one that went east (switch still there but tracks to raceway gone, and had throw was working till I last ventured there this fall, to find vandals destroyed it)

was any of that ever eletrified or was that part always diesel only?