Strange consist on Port Jervis line

I was driving south on the Thruway yesterday from Harriman at about 3:10 PM. The on-ramp passes over the Port Jervis line, and just as I crossed it I saw a strange train go by.

Now I've seen trains with the locomotive at the front, and I've seen trains with the locomotive at the back and a cab car leading, but this one had it in the middle. Never saw that before. There were 3 passenger cars, then a locomotive (4912), then two more passenger cars, all in MN livery.

I paced it for a couple minutes, and clocked it at about 70MPH. I was eventually able to get ahead of it, got off at 59, and stopped at the parking lot by the Suffern yard to get a quick video of it going by, but it's too small-scale and blurry to read the car numbers. I did note that there was no cab on the rear end.

The train went straight through Suffern without stopping, and I lost contact with it due to red lights on 202, so I don't know where it went, or why it was set up like that. I don't think there were any passengers on board; there were no lights on inside.

Anybody know something about this?

(edit. OK, I did see it once before, years ago, on the Chemical Coast. There was a short freight train going over the Trumbull St overpass with two freight cars forward of the locomotive. I don't recall seeing anyone riding the steps at the front, but I couldn't see the engineer's side of the train from where I was.)

Ask NJ Transit, they operate those trains!

Could it have been a 3-car push/pull train in push mode with two coaches coupled behind the locomotive?

If there was no cab car leading, in an emergency I think a train can be operated with cars ahead of the locomotive. Especially a deadhead shop train. They have to have someone who is qualified in the lead position in the forward coach with access to the emergency brake valve and a radio to pass signals.

Strange as it may be for Port Jervis, if you come up to Toronto you'll see it every morning on VIA 50/60 which splits at Brockville to go to Ottawa and Montreal respectively.

Tommy Meehan wrote:Ask NJ Transit, they operate those trains!

Could it have been a 3-car push/pull train in push mode with two coaches coupled behind the locomotive?

If there was no cab car leading, in an emergency I think a train can be operated with cars ahead of the locomotive. Especially a deadhead shop train. They have to have someone who is qualified in the lead position in the forward coach with access to the emergency brake valve and a radio to pass signals.

But under NORAC, such a move, more than likely classified as a reverse movement if no cab car or locomotive was present on the head end, it could not operate exceeding 30 MPH. The original poster indicated this move was made at speeds up to 70 MPH.

I think it was definitely a deadhead equipment move, probably a shop move.

Shalom wrote:I was driving south on the Thruway yesterday from Harriman at about 3:10 PM. The on-ramp passes over the Port Jervis line, and just as I crossed it I saw a strange train go by.

Now I've seen trains with the locomotive at the front, and I've seen trains with the locomotive at the back and a cab car leading, but this one had it in the middle. Never saw that before. There were 3 passenger cars, then a locomotive (4912), then two more passenger cars, all in MN livery.

I paced it for a couple minutes, and clocked it at about 70MPH. I was eventually able to get ahead of it, got off at 59, and stopped at the parking lot by the Suffern yard to get a quick video of it going by, but it's too small-scale and blurry to read the car numbers. I did note that there was no cab on the rear end.

The train went straight through Suffern without stopping, and I lost contact with it due to red lights on 202, so I don't know where it went, or why it was set up like that. I don't think there were any passengers on board; there were no lights on inside.

Anybody know something about this?

(edit. OK, I did see it once before, years ago, on the Chemical Coast. There was a short freight train going over the Trumbull St overpass with two freight cars forward of the locomotive. I don't recall seeing anyone riding the steps at the front, but I couldn't see the engineer's side of the train from where I was.)

More than likely this move was going to the MMC (Meadows Maintenance Complex), and was a deadhead shop move, timetable designated as an X-series deadhead move. After hours, on the New Haven Line, I have seen Amtrak run a similar type of unusual move, with a rare instance of a Metroliner Cab Car on the west end in the lead, with 2 or 3 Amfleet I coaches, a Gennie (P42), and AEM-7 (pans up), several more Amfleet Is and a Heritage baggage car all in one consist. This move I was was well after 2 AM in Stamford (saw it when I was heading home from my regular run at that time), long after MN 1397 and A067 went west. It was designated on the radio as "Amtrak Tow Train".

Shalom wrote:I was driving south on the Thruway yesterday from Harriman at about 3:10 PM. The on-ramp passes over the Port Jervis line, and just as I crossed it I saw a strange train go by...

Given the time of day, 3:10 PM on a weekday, it was almost certainly not a revenue train. No. 64 from Port Jervis stops at Harriman at 2:32 PM and the next train is 66 (from Middletown) at 3:56 PM.

Shalom wrote:The train went straight through Suffern without stopping...

Both 64 and 66 terminate at Suffern. In fact I was surprised to discover, on weekdays ten of thirteen eastbound trains terminate at Suffern. Only three operate through.

link to West of Hudson schedule

Tommy,
I'm not sure what you were looking at, but no eastbound trains on the timetable terminate at suffern. However, Metro North itself only owns the track west of Suffern. Maybe you were looking at some Metro North map that doesn't indicate NJT stations.

Yes you're right Joe. I was looking at the schedule in the link I provided. Specifically the fact the trains I referenced are marked with a 'T.' The footnote says:

T - Connect here for trains to/from NJ Transit Main-Bergen

I forgot to read the second line:

Line stations not served by this train.

Story of my life! I forgot to read the second line.

In any event, with the exception of No. 50, the morning express (last inbound stop at Harriman), all eastbound Port Jervis Line trains stop at Suffern. The OP said the train he saw didn't stop there. (I think I got that right!)

Yeah I said all trains stop at Suffern, but 1 each way (50 eastbound) do not.

There were two shopped cars in Port Jervis and they were being brought down to the MMC.

Is there any reason to think the train was operating without a cab car leading?

MTASUPT wrote:There were two shopped cars in Port Jervis and they were being brought down to the MMC.

OK, so that explains it. Thanks.

(There was a cab car leading it, and the loco was facing north (timetable west); the two extra cars were coupled to the nose. Without those two cars, it would have been just another train.)