by ConductorXX
No service in or out of penn station, 4 trains stuck on mainline between Harold and jay.. night be a good day to stay home on Monday
Railroad Forums
Snow storm
- Discussion of the past and present operations of the Long Island Rail Road.
Moderator: Liquidcamphor
by 9C1LT1
Thanks for the advice ConductorXX. I heard about the disabled Great Neck MU train on ‘newsradio 88’. According to the MTA website Port Washington service is still suspended… I think overall the railroad did pretty well considering the record breaking snow fall. As usual my favorite branch, the Oyster Bay didn’t close just some minor delays… I thought I would finally see a DM train today on the Port Washington branch, guess that didn’t happen… Mister M7, if I may ask what did it feel like when your MU had trouble taking power? Was it jerky or did it just come to a stop? Like most railfans I’m a diesel buff. I like Metro-North’s motto: A diesel with a snowplow can go through just about anything!
-Barry
-Barry
by RPM2Night
What kind of plans does the LIRR have for trains on the OB Branch tomorrow? I'm considering parking at either mineola or east williston and taking a fun trip up to Oyster Bay and back just to take a ride in the snow. I'm sure the sites from the train are amazing! If I have to sit up in Oyster Bay for a few hours to wait for the next train abck though I'm gonna pass.
by pgengler
9C1LT1 wrote:I think overall the railroad did pretty well considering the record breaking snow fall.I beg to differ. While Amtrak and NJT were running trains in and out of Penn all day, the LIRR hasn't had any service for over 12 hours now. Even at Jamaica, things are a complete mess. No one (including the train crews) has any idea what's going on until the moment it happens. At least one crew outlawed with a train out on the mainline. Eastbound service on the main line this evening was basically non-existent; I spent about an hour and a half at Jamaica trying to get home (on the Hempstead branch, which has no service now) and only three eastbound trains left; one for Speonk, one for Babylon, and one for Long Beach. Nothing for Ronkonkoma, Huntington, Oyster Bay, or West Hempstead.
Phil Gengler
Overheard in NY Penn: "All aboard! Get on the train if you're coming with us!"
Overheard in NY Penn: "All aboard! Get on the train if you're coming with us!"
by CLiner2005
Hopefully, operations will be restored as soon as possible. Let's not forget those who are and will be out there (and those inside) making it happen. Sitting here in southern Utah makes me just an observer - thankfully; however, these storms sure test the will, talents and professionalism of a lot of good folks.
I do recall, vividly, the Blizzard of December 26, 1947 - the forecast called for a chance of snow flurries
- and it turned out to be 26.4" measured snowfall in Times Square (that was the official observation location in those days). Given the technology in 1947, the L.I.R.R. did rather well in restoring service - Long Island got creamed and the drifts were quite impressive. Steam was the main rescue vehicle used then - diesel equipment was yard switchers. Also, the electrified territory was much smaller at that time - nothing beyond Mineola on the main line except E. Williston on the OB.
Good luck to all of you on the island and be careful. Just think, 58 years from now this same discussion may be taking place again about the big storm of 2064 and how it compares to the blizzard of '06.
I do recall, vividly, the Blizzard of December 26, 1947 - the forecast called for a chance of snow flurries
- and it turned out to be 26.4" measured snowfall in Times Square (that was the official observation location in those days). Given the technology in 1947, the L.I.R.R. did rather well in restoring service - Long Island got creamed and the drifts were quite impressive. Steam was the main rescue vehicle used then - diesel equipment was yard switchers. Also, the electrified territory was much smaller at that time - nothing beyond Mineola on the main line except E. Williston on the OB.Good luck to all of you on the island and be careful. Just think, 58 years from now this same discussion may be taking place again about the big storm of 2064 and how it compares to the blizzard of '06.
Pappy
St. George, UT
St. George, UT
by mark777
If anyone thinks that things will run better for Monday's commute, think again. The snow drifts in some places are so high, there is absolutely no way an MU will run through it without getting stuck. pgengler: You forget that NJT and Amtrak use overhead catenary for power, well above the snow with little disruption to electricity. With the exception of say Amtrak's Dual modes, all the rest should run fine. The LIRR and MNR use third rail and gets easily covered by snow exceeding 4-6inches in height. Also bear in mind the the heaviest snow fell in the NYC area, west of Jamaica, hence the suspension of service to Penn. There was some rumor that there was a derailment earlier at Hempstead which might explain the suspension of service to that branch, but like I said before, it's rumor.
The day was pretty much hectic with most crews which work out of WSY and Penn being forced to stay at Jamaica for their entire shift like I did. In all honesty, the LIRR should have just suspended all electric operations, use only DE's and DM's and provide service mainly to the main line, and PJ branch. I heard that trains were operating pretty good out to Babylon. Anyone who criticizes the RR is obviously oblivious to what is going on around them. The roads are awfull, with the exception of the SSP, CIP, and Belt. The airports were all closed with LGA opening last by 6AM Monday. Buses were non-existant on many lines, so everyone should chill out and realize that there won't be any miracles tomorrow. It will get better, but when you have that much snow fall in such a short time, the SH*T will hit the fan!
The day was pretty much hectic with most crews which work out of WSY and Penn being forced to stay at Jamaica for their entire shift like I did. In all honesty, the LIRR should have just suspended all electric operations, use only DE's and DM's and provide service mainly to the main line, and PJ branch. I heard that trains were operating pretty good out to Babylon. Anyone who criticizes the RR is obviously oblivious to what is going on around them. The roads are awfull, with the exception of the SSP, CIP, and Belt. The airports were all closed with LGA opening last by 6AM Monday. Buses were non-existant on many lines, so everyone should chill out and realize that there won't be any miracles tomorrow. It will get better, but when you have that much snow fall in such a short time, the SH*T will hit the fan!
by MisterM7
Hey 9C1LT1
The train attempted to draw power but would then shudder and stall after about 1 or 2 mph of movement.
Afterwards we lost main resovoir pressure and DIED IN THE WATER! The crew was blessed because we had 47 very understanding passengers on board.
I too prefer diesels but right now i am working a job that fits into my personal schedule.
By the way I had to take the E train back to 34th st to get home.
The train attempted to draw power but would then shudder and stall after about 1 or 2 mph of movement.
Afterwards we lost main resovoir pressure and DIED IN THE WATER! The crew was blessed because we had 47 very understanding passengers on board.
I too prefer diesels but right now i am working a job that fits into my personal schedule.
By the way I had to take the E train back to 34th st to get home.
by N340SG
lirrmike,
You brought up a point that will invariably be brought up in the media today. Namely, that the M-7 cars were as apt to be stranded as the legacy cars.
The thing here is that the basic M-7 contact shoe design is the exact same as the M-1/M-3. Same basic contact shoe, same hanger design, same exact tension springs. The only difference is the shunt attached for better continuity between the contact shoe and the hanger, due to the increased amperage draw of the M-7 cars. That does nothing for the shoe to 3rd rail contact. In short, the M-7 car still relies on external means of keeping that 3rd rail clear of ice and snow.
The LIRR does apply so-called "scraper [contact] shoes" on the ends of EMU consists sometimes. Were they applied? Did they do any good? That I don't know. Clem might know better about this aspect.
Note to all:
Perhaps having heaters on the 3rd rail in key areas for activation during poor conditions would help. It's not a $4 billion bond issue type of expense. The design would be similar to an electric switch point heater. Typically, they are powered by the 3rd rail itself. They are either turned on manually, via a knife switch, or could be rigged to be turned on remotely. Alcohol trains would still run, but could concentrate more heavily on areas where needed.
The return on investment issue would rear it's ugly head. That the heaters would not be used all that often. Tell the people stuck on those trains for hours with no heat that it's not worth it...I'm not telling them that.
Tom
You brought up a point that will invariably be brought up in the media today. Namely, that the M-7 cars were as apt to be stranded as the legacy cars.
The thing here is that the basic M-7 contact shoe design is the exact same as the M-1/M-3. Same basic contact shoe, same hanger design, same exact tension springs. The only difference is the shunt attached for better continuity between the contact shoe and the hanger, due to the increased amperage draw of the M-7 cars. That does nothing for the shoe to 3rd rail contact. In short, the M-7 car still relies on external means of keeping that 3rd rail clear of ice and snow.
The LIRR does apply so-called "scraper [contact] shoes" on the ends of EMU consists sometimes. Were they applied? Did they do any good? That I don't know. Clem might know better about this aspect.
Note to all:
Perhaps having heaters on the 3rd rail in key areas for activation during poor conditions would help. It's not a $4 billion bond issue type of expense. The design would be similar to an electric switch point heater. Typically, they are powered by the 3rd rail itself. They are either turned on manually, via a knife switch, or could be rigged to be turned on remotely. Alcohol trains would still run, but could concentrate more heavily on areas where needed.
The return on investment issue would rear it's ugly head. That the heaters would not be used all that often. Tell the people stuck on those trains for hours with no heat that it's not worth it...I'm not telling them that.
Tom
by henry6
Why don't these commuter railroads just start running two car trains the minute it starts snowing; not for passengers, but to keep track and third rail clear! So what if the "snow clearing" train puts schedules out of whack, it sure is better than no schedules at all. (The DL&W used to run trains all day and night just to keep tracks clear and catenary clear of ice!)
BTW, NJT and AMTRAK, with the catenary, don't have the same problem as the 3rd rail. They do, however, also have the problem of snow build up at switches and crossovers.
But the real problem is that there are not enough track workers. Used to be every certain stretch of track...maybe 5 miles or so...had a track gang of up to 6 and could pick up more from the roster as needed. Plus there were maintainers at each tower, some with assistants; there were signal department, bridge department, catenary department, mow department, etc., each with a roster. When a storm was expected, or did materialize, there was a "plan" in place for calling out the crews and telling them where to assemble so that tracks and switches were cleared...and kept cleared...with minimum delays. Today, of course, there are no such rosters and probably no such plans!
BTW, NJT and AMTRAK, with the catenary, don't have the same problem as the 3rd rail. They do, however, also have the problem of snow build up at switches and crossovers.
But the real problem is that there are not enough track workers. Used to be every certain stretch of track...maybe 5 miles or so...had a track gang of up to 6 and could pick up more from the roster as needed. Plus there were maintainers at each tower, some with assistants; there were signal department, bridge department, catenary department, mow department, etc., each with a roster. When a storm was expected, or did materialize, there was a "plan" in place for calling out the crews and telling them where to assemble so that tracks and switches were cleared...and kept cleared...with minimum delays. Today, of course, there are no such rosters and probably no such plans!