Smart Technology to Collect Fares

Doc Brown,

Thanks for joining. You allude to some of the bickering and such that has gone on in here; this is true. The moderator of this forum, and myself as site admin, are attempting to address that matter. That said, the schoolyard stuff that has gone on in here should be kept in the schoolyard; if there are personal beefs that need to be addressed, take it off-line. We will not be the arbiter of such disputes. I've heard and seen enough here to have formed some general opinions about what is going on, but it is not my battle to fight. I may sympathize and to an extent agree, but as I've stated to a few individuals, it's like a hockey game. The initial infraction may be used to provoke and is often not seen; it's the retaliation that ends up getting punished.

If you see a post that you think is harsh and a personal attack, use the report function, and PM a quote of said post (and you will have PM functionallity after five approved posts) to me and the moderator (until you have that, just cut and paste and email to [email protected]. Under no circumstances may real names be used (see below) except in the case of a public figure (governmental or railroad official), or where someone has self-identified either through their user name, signature, or other self-disclosure.

My general rules are:

1. If you wouldn't say it in person, don't say it here.
2. You own what you post; i.e. be careful of what you say if it will get you or someone else in trouble.
3. With the exception of public figures, i.e. those with a role in the spotlight such as the president of a railroad, don't use real names when referring to private third-party individuals. You'll notice I redacted the one name you included.
4. Don't start a craft war, or whine to me that someone hurt your feelings because they don't agree with you.

Life is too short for this BS, and we (liquidcamphor and me) don't have time for it. This ain't Kindergarten and I have NOT moved your cheese.

I hope we're all clear. I don't want to sanitize railroad.net, but I won't put up with certain things.

Thanks to all in advance for following these guidelines.

Jeff Smith
Site Admin

Doc Emmet Brown wrote:I have friends who work for the RR, and I have asked them if this is actually going on, they all say no, and say thats why they don't bother to post in here.
It's Because of the constant bickering and intentional missinformation.
Many have been driven away.
Why do you think *name redacted*, and other former Railroad employees do not post in here anymore?

The LIRR does run the greenport Scoots without a Brakeman or Collectors.
Its just an Engineer and Conductor.
The railroad also runs Change of Engines, and protect Engines with just an Engineer.
This has been going on for at least 25 years or more, its nothing new.
The only time the scoot gets a collector is on friday nights in the summer when the trains get crowded.
It would not be too much of a stretch to remove the brakeman from some other trains, such as the west hempstead branch.

Smart Technology, ha!!!!! The receipt roll for my TIM doesn't fit the slot, the solution?..... Bang the receipt roll on the floor!!!!!! I love it, keep it coming guys.

All this worrying for nothing lol

This would be an example of circa 2011 Fake News.

Your telling me, reading through this thread now 7 years later, almost everything people claimed would happen turned out to be totally wrong. Even about all the so called back room deals, no extra money for using the OBTIMS, needing less trainmen etc.. the list goes on for awhile. Lol

srock68 wrote:Either way, it sure seems a lot of Conductors will be furloughed.

Nope. Since this was written over 500 trainmen were hired.

srock68 wrote:Wow...that would hurt a lot of Conductors. I probably should start updating my resume.

No need to do that, they will be hiring 535 trainmen from feb 2012 to aug 2018

Datenail wrote:The LIRR isn't planning on one person train operation. They are considering changing the train service position whereas the asst. conductor is more like a collector. Phase one is for the asst. collector to report to the first station stop of the train and not in the yard. There will be general notice boards located on the platform in a designated area. Most asst. conductors either don't bother travelling to the yard at the beginning and end of the job, some not at the beginning and most not at the end. We pay them to and from the yard but decades of watching them deliberately cut time off the job has given us the idea of giving them what they want, shorter on-duty time.

We expect for a few weeks that some conductors will act like they have so many things to do in the yard and deliberately delay the train. Their union told us so. Their union was also told if they play that game too long the MTA will decimate their ranks and accelerate alternate collection methods.

Phase two is the elimination of the asst. conductor position altogether and operate as does our sister railroad, Metro-North does. The future of train service in the short run is sound. But in the long term, it will evolve into a much different job.

The LIRR wants to assist their train service employees the best it can. We have watched them refuse to collect fares and sit in the cabs talking on their phones and play games. So, its obvious they want to collect their tickets as fast as possible so they can get back in the cab. We've responded with technology to that will assist them in doing that. They bail-off the trains everyday and go home early even though they are required to stay on the entire trip. We have responded by implementing plans to do just that. Shorten their on-duty tiime and eventually get rid of the asst. conductor position. You see Wilson, we're not as bad as you think we are. We care.

Ok, so pretty much the exact opposite of everything written here happened lol.
We now have a crew consist agreement guaranteeing a crew will always have a brakeman who reports in the yard with the crew.

Without getting political, this illustrates how decisions are managed in a government-run organization. Plans, dreams, improvement ideas, economies change with the wind, political appointments or with the election cycle. The lack of a contiguous management and management plan that transcends administrations impedes "progress". Few people would argue that a truly private profit-driven entity would have economized fare collection long ago. But where government operates businesses other factors intrude.

Plans and players change with each election cycle and with public opinion.

Probably since the 1940's plans have been formulated to drastically cut manpower. Some initiatives have seen the light of day and have come to fruition. Mechanical and track forces have been dramatically cut, partly through the introduction of technology. Train crews have been reduced though automated ticket sales and servicing. Those of us old enough recall some trains with ten collectors and cash reports that wouldn't fit in a guy's pocket.

Then there's the delicate union-management "dance" which plays out in the media. A train crew assures safety and confidence to the public, and actual costs of train crews have (depending on how you calculate costs) been reduced. Today both riders and government have demanded an increased public perception and appearance of safety and service. That has rearranged financial priorities. Budgets and taxes have exploded as socialism and public debt become acceptable to the masses.

There are plenty of ways to run a railroad. Had the LIRR remained operated by a private PRR we suppose turnstiles would have replaced on board collection a long time ago.

Kelly&Kelly wrote:Without getting political, this illustrates how decisions are managed in a government-run organization. Plans, dreams, improvement ideas, economies change with the wind, political appointments or with the election cycle. The lack of a contiguous management and management plan that transcends administrations impedes "progress". Few people would argue that a truly private profit-driven entity would have economized fare collection long ago. But where government operates businesses other factors intrude.

Plans and players change with each election cycle and with public opinion.

Probably since the 1940's plans have been formulated to drastically cut manpower. Some initiatives have seen the light of day and have come to fruition. Mechanical and track forces have been dramatically cut, partly through the introduction of technology. Train crews have been reduced though automated ticket sales and servicing. Those of us old enough recall some trains with ten collectors and cash reports that wouldn't fit in a guy's pocket.

Then there's the delicate union-management "dance" which plays out in the media. A train crew assures safety and confidence to the public, and actual costs of train crews have (depending on how you calculate costs) been reduced. Today both riders and government have demanded an increased public perception and appearance of safety and service. That has rearranged financial priorities. Budgets and taxes have exploded as socialism and public debt become acceptable to the masses.

There are plenty of ways to run a railroad. Had the LIRR remained operated by a private PRR we suppose turnstiles would have replaced on board collection a long time ago.

A very thoughtful and wise post by Kelly, thank you!

K & K: Ditto! Some of us really appreciate your well-balanced analysis of the big picture. Please keep posting.

Thank you for the kind words.