• Silverliner IVs getting old

  • Discussion relating to Southeastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority (Philadelphia Metro Area). Official web site can be found here: www.septa.com. Also including discussion related to the PATCO Speedline rapid transit operated by Delaware River Port Authority. Official web site can be found here: http://www.ridepatco.org/.
Discussion relating to Southeastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority (Philadelphia Metro Area). Official web site can be found here: www.septa.com. Also including discussion related to the PATCO Speedline rapid transit operated by Delaware River Port Authority. Official web site can be found here: http://www.ridepatco.org/.

Moderator: AlexC

  by SubwayTim
 
25Hz wrote:
Head-end View wrote:The Silverliner IV's also look remarkably good for their age. They still look very shiny, much more so than Long Island Railroad's 10-year old M-7's which look very dull for such new cars.
LIRR also operates near salt water environments, SEPTA does not.
Isn't the Delaware River salt water, especially south of Philly? Of course, only two Regional Rail lines run close to the (Delaware) river and they are the Wilmington/Newark Line to the south and the Trenton Line to the northeast. I've heard numerous times that the Delaware River is salt water, at least up to Marcus Hook and Chester and the strength of the salt varies, depending on certain conditions.
  by AlexC
 
SubwayTim wrote:
25Hz wrote:
Head-end View wrote:The Silverliner IV's also look remarkably good for their age. They still look very shiny, much more so than Long Island Railroad's 10-year old M-7's which look very dull for such new cars.
LIRR also operates near salt water environments, SEPTA does not.
Isn't the Delaware River salt water, especially south of Philly? Of course, only two Regional Rail lines run close to the (Delaware) river and they are the Wilmington/Newark Line to the south and the Trenton Line to the northeast. I've heard numerous times that the Delaware River is salt water, at least up to Marcus Hook and Chester and the strength of the salt varies, depending on certain conditions.
The "salt line" is a few miles downstream of the Delaware Memorial Bridge. http://www.state.nj.us/drbc/hydrological/river/salt/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

With the exception of strong winds off the ocean or up the bay, I don't think that anyone could strongly argue that SEPTA operates in very salty environment. The trolleys probably encounter more salt in the winter than the trains do in a year.
  by 25Hz
 
Clearfield wrote:
25Hz wrote:I'm betting 20 years total service life.
Based on...................??
Based on how they seem to be doing so far. They are not holding up very well, and i mean this as they look much older all ready than they actually are, they are not performing very well even in non-severe weather, the problems listed before like noise have only gotten worse. On the silverliner 4 and every other railcar & MU i've traveled in you could not feel the wheels on the track, with these its like your seat is connected directly to the axles. It's terrible and it's gotten worse.
  by SCB2525
 
Keep in mind that frequently equipment starts out somewhat rough before the bugs are worked out. I hate to ride on them but the V's aren't "aging" particularly poorly or at the very least its too soon to tell. Its a new family of railcar and its faring better than some other equipment when new like SPV2000s or Boston Boeing LRVs. Denver will likely benefit from our "beta testing".

The M-IVs are another matter. Junk now, junk from day 1. Hopefully a GOH is coming and will help the matter.
  by SCB2525
 
25Hz wrote: On the silverliner 4 and every other railcar & MU i've traveled in you could not feel the wheels on the track, with these its like your seat is connected directly to the axles. It's terrible and it's gotten worse.
Ride a SIV at 60 NB through NX, especially with a bad airbag and tell me you don't "feel the wheels on the track". I don't like the V's and even I concede they have a slim advantage in ride quality.

20 years is a stupidly low service life for a railcar. Even the AMG tracklesses lasted 22-23 years and they were lemons and trackless trolleys not railroad equipment. The Vs would have had to start out pretty catastrophically to foresee 20 years. Like only now maybe we'd be retiring the IIs and IIIs catastrophic.
  by Limited-Clear
 
Don't forget the Vs are heavier than IVs, you will feel more bumps and lumps as they go along, regardless of the suspension system on them, the bad weather this winter hasn't done the track any good either, but I'm sure our resident expert with open a new thread soon regarding the state of the track.
  by 25Hz
 
jackintosh11 wrote:The Vs are much better than the IVs to ride on IMHO.
How long are you riding for? I have spent up to an hour, and i just wish it would end. As much as i enjoy the forward view, i'd much rather be sitting in a 4 and not have my body & ears racked to death.
  by CComMack
 
Clearfield wrote:
25Hz wrote:I'm betting 20 years total service life.
Based on...................??
Rectal analysis and overbearing prejudice.
  by 25Hz
 
CComMack wrote:
Clearfield wrote:
25Hz wrote:I'm betting 20 years total service life.
Based on...................??
Rectal analysis and overbearing prejudice.
Or having ridden 13 other railroad car types and multiple rapid transit car types many times over many years.

Silverliner 5's are at the bottom of the list in terms of ride comfort from a noise and physical standpoint. They are also at the bottom of the list in terms of what i see now vs when they were brand new. They are not aging well. I put them well below the MTA R40's before they were retired. I loved riding on the R40's for sentimental reasons, but damn they were uncomfortable and loud in their final days. I was excited about the silverliner 5's at first, but now.... yuck no thanks. The first 2 rides killed it for me.

I just get the feeling that so many on here just do not use the system as much as i have HAD to, and come in with anecdotal stories of the one time they rode somewhere for some reason. It's a little different when you're forced to live with what the transit agency decides every week for several years. It's also different when you're riding vs sitting trackside taking pictures. So, troll all you want, it doesn't make my extensive riding experience any less real... or unpleasant on the silverliner 5's.
  by Limited-Clear
 
The SLV cars have no more noise levels than the SLIV cars, it is just now you all get to experience what the engineers have suffered for years and years, it is not Septa that your beef should be with (if you have one), the design was forced by the FRA, internal design such as the closet the engineer sits in is certainly Septas fault, but overall design (where doors are and no vestibules) that's the FRA. Make a car the the NJT multis and you lose even more seating space. The do have vestibules ends but the seating area is reduced
  by dcipjr
 
Limited-Clear wrote:The SLV cars have no more noise levels than the SLIV cars, it is just now you all get to experience what the engineers have suffered for years and years, it is not Septa that your beef should be with (if you have one), the design was forced by the FRA, internal design such as the closet the engineer sits in is certainly Septas fault, but overall design (where doors are and no vestibules) that's the FRA. Make a car the the NJT multis and you lose even more seating space. The do have vestibules ends but the seating area is reduced
I do agree that many of the sources of noise on the V, such as the doors, the closing beeps, the signal buzzers, scraping and grinding noises at the end of the car, wind noise, etc. are absolutely due to the FRA's mandated designs. But the Vs have a much louder HVAC system, and the ambient noise level is absolutely higher than on a IV -- especially if you count visual noise, such as the over-bright lights (in my opinion) and the blinking advertisements on the screens.

SEPTA's hands are tied on the FRA-mandates, of course -- but in this rider's opinion, there is plenty that could be done to make the ride on the V a better experience. Backing down on the lighting intensity a bit, warmer interior colors, more pleasant sounds (the BSL has much nicer pre-recorded announcements and doors-closing chimes), floor coverings that don't look filthy all the time, better padding on the seats (like the push-pull coaches), more static advertisements (as opposed to videos, and with less frequent changes) -- these are all doable enhancements that benefit the riders.

I am not sure why, but from what I read here, it seems like folks -- both at SEPTA and on this board -- are more interested in getting in personal attacks and p-ssing matches than actually solving the problems with the Vs (and there are problems).

It's distressing, because there's a lot to like about the Vs -- smooth acceleration and braking, for example -- and there's a lot that can be fixed.
  by 4400Washboard
 
Think of the Silverliner IVs as.... dang it I can't think of any car as good as it! and the Silverliner Vs as the EMD DM/DE diesels. From the start they were lemons, now they will forever be lemons, unless septa fixes them up of course.
jackintosh11 wrote:My brother slept past his stop the ride was so smooth. They're much better than the IVs in every way.
People sleep differently-I've fallen asleep on a Silverliner IV but never a Silverliner V. Has your brother fallen asleep on a IV?
  by jackintosh11
 
No, he hasn't. The IVs are too bumpy. The Vs could use shorter announcements, especially in the Quietride car. However, it beats the incomprehensible announcements in the older cars.