SILVERLINER 5 RETIREMENT?

Hey all,

I'm wondering: The SL4's are staying i believe till 2034 due to *typical* reliability, obviously there have been examples of breakdowns. But I didnt name this forum "SL4 retirement" i named it SL5 retirement. So to stop beating around the bush, When will the unreliable Silverliner 5's be retired, I mean, ALL of them were OOS in 2016 because they had CRACKS in the trucks. Septa should definetly be looking to a date of retirement. I've seen them get rescued by fellow SL's and, diesels occasionally. so anyone know?

Do you have any empirical evidence their MDBF is worse than comparable MUs or is this just vibes-based

2 things:
1. what is MDBF
2. From what i remember, SEPTA had put renderings out of what had happened to the 5's in '16. The trucks had cracks in the trucks due to stress, as you may know. as for reliability I cant even count up (because of how many times) i've seen SL5's break down, heard about it, or seen a rescue train of sorts. I believe I had heard the SEPTA was going to retire them 'earlier than planned' but that it wouldnt be for a while due to the delay on the CRRC's.

also in terms of empirical evidence. I was at wynnewood station with my friend railfanning and a SL5 rolled up and made its station stop. it then proceeded to sit there for 40 minutes while they troubleshot the breaking system. They had to do that because the brakes had clenched all the way, but would let go at all. This eventually got the brakes to unclench and let the train continue its outbound service so obviously it wasnt a full breakdown. but i do know that there are many times where they have broken down badly and had to have work done on them.

Emmett wrote: ↑Thu Oct 05, 2023 10:12 am 2 things:
1. what is MDBF
2. From what i remember, SEPTA had put renderings out of what had happened to the 5's in '16. The trucks had cracks in the trucks due to stress, as you may know. as for reliability I cant even count up (because of how many times) i've seen SL5's break down, heard about it, or seen a rescue train of sorts. I believe I had heard the SEPTA was going to retire them 'earlier than planned' but that it wouldnt be for a while due to the delay on the CRRC's.

1: Mean Distance Between Failures, it's how railroads measure performance of their equipment. It's the average distance a class of loco, MU, etc. goes before requiring unscheduled maintenance or repair.

2: I just looked through SEPTA's 2023FY budget and they have zero mention of replacing either Silverliner type at the moment
https://planning.septa.org/wp-content/u ... sal-v2.pdf

NaugyRR thanks for that info. yeah i wasnt expecting a retirement too soon, but I do believe they'll get put OOS before the IV's

Based on this DVRPC report, the entire Railroad side has 46,373 miles as MDBF for Fiscal Year 2020. No breakdown from different types of EMU’s or Loco hauled consists.

The Silverliner V’s we’re also purchased with some FTA Grant money, meaning they can’t be sold or disposed of until they are fully depreciated, say 20 or 25 years.

Yeah then this is just another thread of vibes and friend of a friend rumors.

roger dodger, 20-25 years of life. *meanwhile SL4's at 50+*

NaugyRR wrote: ↑Thu Oct 05, 2023 10:54 am 1: Mean Distance Between Failures, it's how railroads measure performance of their equipment. It's the average distance a class of loco, MU, etc. goes before requiring unscheduled maintenance or repair.

Specifically, the distance between mechanical failures that result in a revenue train delay.

E - The 120 car Silverliner Five car fleet is NOT going anywhere - let alone to ANY kind of premature retirement...
Yes - SEPTA has had problems with these ROTEM MU cars - the truck problem notwithstanding back in 2016...
The problems were corrected and the fleet returned to service - SEPTA had to lease outside equipment from
NJ Transit, MARC and Amtrak in their absence as we recall (you can look back in the SEPTA Forum Archives to
see how SEPTA RRD dealt with this car shortage problem) until the cars were repaired...

What SEPTA RRD will need in the coming years is a SILVERLINER SIX procurement of at least 220 cars to outright
replace the aging (1974-1976 now 49-47 years old) Silverliner Four fleet - 100 to 120 more cars would be 320/340
if SEPTA opts to retire the Silverliner Five cars - at about $3 million dollars/car the price tag would be $660 M
or approaching the one billion dollar mark for the larger 340 car fleet option...

The 44 CRRC Multilevel car order was placed before the major RRD ridership losses in 2020 - it is debatable
if these cars are needed at all with the levels of RRD ridership as of now - it may take many years - perhaps
measured in a decade or more (2033) to recover back to 2019 numbers...The idea was to run more weekday
peak hour trains from Paoli/Thorndale, Wilmington/Newark and West Trenton (best examples) along with
the spare ACS64 motors to add service along with the previous push-pull single level fleet...

New RRD MU cars are going to take time to be built - 3 to 5 years if an order was placed now - and as noted
are going to be an expensive proposition for SEPTA provided funding can be made available...MACTRAXX

yeah. the SL4's i heard are going to go out of service in 2034. is that correct.

When the FTA Covid relief money dries up in 2025, just about every transit agency in the country is going to wind up with a hole in their budget of around 15 to 50% depending on where they are.

Once that financial reality sets in, watch for that S4 retirement goal of 3034 to get extended to 3039 quickly...

Sent from my SM-S911U using Tapatalk

do you mean 2034. and yeah that may happen.

Let's break this down.

Emmett wrote: ↑Thu Oct 05, 2023 7:07 am I'm wondering: The SL4's are staying i believe till 2034 due to *typical* reliability, obviously there have been examples of breakdowns.

Can you provide any evidence of your statements backed up by public statements by SEPTA, one of the many related union shops, the FRA, DVARP, CAC/YAC, or any other recognized group that can say things with *some* authority? What do you define as a breakdown? Of them, what are mechanical failures due to poor design, deferred/ignored maintenance, or other breakdowns as influenced by external forces (weather, debris, vandalism, etc)?

Emmett wrote: ↑Thu Oct 05, 2023 7:07 am When will the unreliable Silverliner 5's be retired, I mean, ALL of them were OOS in 2016 because they had CRACKS in the trucks.

Unreliable....? They were out of service for a defect in the trucks in 2016. It's 2023. Are you aware of any problems related to the design of the vehicle since then?

Emmett wrote: ↑Thu Oct 05, 2023 7:07 amSepta should definetly be looking to a date of retirement. I've seen them get rescued by fellow SL's and, diesels occasionally. so anyone know?

Have you ever seen a SLV being rescued? How about a Sprinter + Comet set? At this point, why not just couple up a few diesels and let the freak flags fly?

Conversation is fun, questions are great, but poorly formed opinions that are spun as factual statements have no place here.