Signals on Hudson Line

---------
This is why freights on MNRR face such horrible speed restrictions.
---------

The real reason the freights on MNCR face restrictions is they all still have the old 4 aspect PRR style Cab Signals. All the old units are ex CR junklers with the old PRR style walkway boxes.

This is the same reason that Amtrak diesel with thier 9 aspect cab signals replaced the NS diesels on the NEC test freights. The NS units couldnt properly display the aspects and would default to lower speed aspects.

If CSXT would uprade the cab signals to what Amtrak or Metro North uses. I am sure they would be able to run faster.

Seems to me that it would also be necessary to up grade the cab signal
system itself before any change could be accomplished.
Noel Weaver

Metro North only uses 4 aspect cab signal, and has no problem with it., The reason freights are severly restricted is the third rail and short signal blocks.
A freightcar starts rolling at higher speeds and would knock down or short third rail with coupler levers and bleeder rods.

Was riding the LIRR well east of Jamaica last week and to my surprise, they aren't removing but rather reinstalling new wayside signals with new signal bridges and masts. Last month I was on the Oyster Bay branch and the Port Jefferson branch and noted that there were signals all along the right of way, just like in the good old days. Why doesn't Metro North reinstall the wayside signals also? Oh, I forgot, cost factor. No but they can spend millions on automated train announcements in the new M7 cars. These announcements, at best, are an annoyance. The Metro North conductors do a great job at announcing the stations. In fact, half the time the conductors have to make additional announcements. Signals are to me a bit more inportant than automated train announcements.

In my opinion, wayside signals aren't needed. The system in place works just fine. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Terminal Proceed wrote:In my opinion, wayside signals aren't needed. The system in place works just fine. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Yes, the system works fine for Metro-North and Amtrak if they don't mind
flat wheels and major delays in the fall leaf season.
So far as freight trains are concerned, it is no good, it is no longer possible
to even attempt to operate an overnight freight or van service between
New York and Boston.
they would have been better off with an up-graded cab signal system or if
some of the wayside signals had been left in.
It is unfortunate that the signal changes were made as they prevent any
decent freight operation west of New Haven.
The State of Connecticut did not help the situation by sitting on their
"rears" while these changes were under design and being put into place.
Noel Weaver

Back in 1984 ---- believe it or not it really was that long ago ---- when MN began removing wayside signals and going to only cab signals on the New Haven line, I was told by an official in the engineering dept. that there was nothing new or innovative about doing this. It was orignated on the Japanese shinkansen line when built back in 1963! JNR found operation by cab signal only to be eminently successful.

Tom Curtin wrote:Back in 1984 ---- believe it or not it really was that long ago ---- when MN began removing wayside signals and going to only cab signals on the New Haven line, I was told by an official in the engineering dept. that there was nothing new or innovative about doing this. It was orignated on the Japanese shinkansen line when built back in 1963! JNR found operation by cab signal only to be eminently successful.

I agree, Tom, it COULD be successful. The way it is set up on Metro-North
does not really make it particularly successful.
I wonder how much equipment was OOS last fall for wheels during the
leaf season.
It would be a much better system if it gave more cab indications and the
speeds were reduced much more gradually. Cost would be rather high
but the savings would come in reduced wheel problems and a better ride
for their passengers. As for freight locomotives, the CP, CSX and P & W
could equip enough locomotives to handle the remaining traffic in this
territory without doing the whole fleet.
I wouldn't hold my breath until they do something to improve the system.
Noel Weaver