Scanning: Same problems as photography?

With railfan photography called into such suspicion, has anyone had problems with The Authorities regarding that other great tool of the railfan, radio scanners? I never have myself, but my QRT--Quality Railfanning Time--is only a fraction of what it was at another point in my life.

Seems to me that scanners could create the same paranoia among officialdom as cameras do.

(I realize maybe this subject might belong in the Scanning forum, but this Tools of the Modern Railfan topic seems to be generating a lot of interest here)

My guess would be yes. If you are trackside along the ROW or at a station or even on a train i'm positive that it would attract attention and you might be answering questions to someone in law enforcement. Esp. with the events that have occured this week.

Keep it out of sight and use headphones... I can't see how that can create a problem.

There was I belive an article in time or something about this. There is a thread about it on a scaning forum I post at. go to www.fordyce.org/scanning, click NJ, should be in the "general" forums for all of the great state in NJ, and not one of the county forums.

there are also books published with radio frequencies listed in them.

One I recall my father having years ago was titled "Scanner Master" and it had radio frequencies for all railroads, subway, busses, taxis, police, fire, coast guard, etc..... in the New England area.

He bought it for about $10 or $15 at a local Radio Shack store.

CSX Conductor wrote:there are also books published with radio frequencies listed in them.

One I recall my father having years ago was titled "Scanner Master" and it had radio frequencies for all railroads, subway, busses, taxis, police, fire, coast guard, etc..... in the New England area.

He bought it for about $10 or $15 at a local Radio Shack store.

They still publish those books, but why would you need it these days? Theres numerious sites for frequencies, like http://www.fordyce.org.

I have a copy of "Scanner Master" from 1983... it has alot of stuff that was useful at that time...but you can get all the stuff thats in it online noow.

I think the danger here (if there is one) is that railroad, and for that matter airline radios are not encrypyted for privacy. That means that anyone can monitor these frequencies and will eventually become conversant with the "lingo." With only a slight modification to an Amateur radio VHF transceiver (or by stealing real railroad or airline equipment), someone could spoof a dispatcher's or an air traffic controller's instructions and maybe cause an accident.

A few years back, there was kid who lived near O'Hare airport in Chicago who modified a police radio he took out of a junked patrol car and routinely tried to speak to pilots on the approach frequencies. Nothing malicious; he just wanted to see if he could do it. But suppose he really wanted to cause a collision by assigning two inbounds the same runway? Heck, that happened to me last week in San Francisco with an experienced controller. Both aircrews and the controller caught it quickly enough, but it got the old adrenaline pumping just the same.

I don't think being able to "take over" the airways from a RR dispatcher is a real threat. Even if they knew the lingo, and could talk their way through, there are other safe guards. The crews of the trains would know something is up, and unless the terrorists actually got into the dispatching center and were able to manipulate the signals adn switches, they can talk all they want the train isn't gonna go past a stop signal. Even if they were to give verbal permission past a stop signal, its not like the train automatically goes up to full speed.

If for some reason, the acutal dispatcher couldn't talk at all over the radio, they would simply drop all the signals they control to stop, and probably throw all the switches they can against the trains. This way, the engineer if he was going at restricted speed, he would see the switches lined against him and simply stop, or they could stilll sound the interlocking horns and communicate to the trains that way to stop.

There are layers and layers of safeguards, I wouldn't worry about a terrorist trying to take over a dispatching center or even trying to hyjack a train.......not knowing the cab signals and alerters or how to set up or recover from an emergency brake application............i don't think the train would get real far. And if say they were threatening the engineer, and making him run with a gun to his head, as soon as the conductor or other crew member would notice the train speeding or missing stations or something out of the ordinary, they would dump the train, and it would stop.

Jtgshu wrote:I don't think being able to "take over" the airways from a RR dispatcher is a real threat. Even if they knew the lingo, and could talk their way through, there are other safe guards. The crews of the trains would know something is up, and unless the terrorists actually got into the dispatching center and were able to manipulate the signals adn switches, they can talk all they want the train isn't gonna go past a stop signal. Even if they were to give verbal permission past a stop signal, its not like the train automatically goes up to full speed.

If for some reason, the acutal dispatcher couldn't talk at all over the radio, they would simply drop all the signals they control to stop, and probably throw all the switches they can against the trains. This way, the engineer if he was going at restricted speed, he would see the switches lined against him and simply stop, or they could stilll sound the interlocking horns and communicate to the trains that way to stop.

There are layers and layers of safeguards, I wouldn't worry about a terrorist trying to take over a dispatching center or even trying to hyjack a train.......not knowing the cab signals and alerters or how to set up or recover from an emergency brake application............i don't think the train would get real far. And if say they were threatening the engineer, and making him run with a gun to his head, as soon as the conductor or other crew member would notice the train speeding or missing stations or something out of the ordinary, they would dump the train, and it would stop.

I really don't forsee this happening. But it is always good to be prepared and have safeguards. If you ask me, NJT, other rail compaines and airplane companies need to come up with a newer, better type of security system that can detect weapons, explosives and the like and develop it so it can be used in NYP and other stations. I know it sounds Star Trekish but they need to start developing some system that can scan massive amounts of people at once.

I havent had any problems recently. But then I havent been around NJTransit or any other commuter agency since before the ban on photography took place. Prior to that I did bring my scanner on the train, but I kept my scanner in my coat pocket which hid everything but the antenna and I listened to it with the headphones on. Upon reaching Hoboken I turned my scanner off and disconnected the antenna so it would not attract attention and did so on PATH as well. I would not even think of bringing a scanner to the WTC station on PATH or Penn Station as the transit police are already nervous and jerky there without finding a scanner on someone.

Idiot Railfan wrote:With railfan photography called into such suspicion, has anyone had problems with The Authorities regarding that other great tool of the railfan, radio scanners? I never have myself, but my QRT--Quality Railfanning Time--is only a fraction of what it was at another point in my life.

Seems to me that scanners could create the same paranoia among officialdom as cameras do.

(I realize maybe this subject might belong in the Scanning forum, but this Tools of the Modern Railfan topic seems to be generating a lot of interest here)