Rubber Tired Subways

I've rode the Montreal Metro as well as several friends in Montreal who ride the Metro for their daily commute. I found the Metro quite nice, but the braking can be quite rough. The cars are not made in France, but by Bombardier, model MR73, which are built in 1973 as the model implies.

Hi All,

Sounds reasonable that they would use Bombardier cars, but it also sounds reasonable that Bombardier has some sort of agreement with the French firm to do that. By the way, all of the Metrolink bilevel cars, including the Cabbage cars are made by Bombardier. Good products. The rough braking implies that the operators are not that skilled, or just don't care. When I last rode the Montreal subways, they were packed with visitors and tourists, and the ride was really impressive. But, those subway cars were all French.

Are there any plans to introduce rubber-tired subway trains into the United States?

pennsy wrote:By the way, all of the Metrolink bi-level cars, including the Cabbage cars, are made by Bombardier.

Yes, the Bombardier BiLevel cars…developed for GO Transit in Southern Ontario.

rail10 wrote:Are there any plans to introduce rubber-tired subway trains into the United States?

Well, in a manner of speaking, they are already here…Bombardier's Automated People Mover systems like at Atlanta Hartsfield-Jackson International Airport run on regular automotive tires.

But other than that, there really isn't a location that has steep grades like in Montreal where they require a rubber-tire subway.

Another example is the airport transit system at Chicago O'Hare connecting the terminals and the remote parking lot. Those trains are all rubber tired and they do have fairly steep grades to contend with over and under airport roads and taxiways and into the International Terminal.

orangeline wrote:Another example is the airport transit system at Chicago O'Hare connecting the terminals and the remote parking lot. Those trains are all rubber tired and they do have fairly steep grades to contend with over and under airport roads and taxiways and into the International Terminal.

How do those handle in the snow out there? I've heard the tales that Montreal can't build surface lines because of the rubber-tired system. The only places I've experienced rubber tires (other than a long ago trip to Montreal as a kid) is in the Atlanta airport, or the original Jacksonville (FL) Skyway, where snow wasn't exactly an issue.

Just a trivia note, when Jax. converted to monorail, I believe they sold the first two rubber-tired cars to O'Hare.

Hi All,

Looks like the memory is going. As I remember O'Hare, the rubber tired areas were under cover and used to get you from one terminal to the other. The outdoor transportation had steel wheels. By the way, I always avoid O'Hare in the winter months. Once got hung up in a Stack Up and circled the field as number seven until we could land. I had to catch a plane coming out to the west coast, home, and I asked the flight attendent if I was going to make my connection. She came back with the information that I should look out my window, count three planes back, and that was my connecting flight. We would land first. And that was the last time I transferred flights at O'Hare in wintertime. I use Salt Lakd City, or Minneapolis/ St. Paul. They can handle snow removal efficiently and I never missed a flight transfer there, or got delayed.

octr202 wrote:How do those handle in the snow out there? I've heard the tales that Montreal can't build surface lines because of the rubber-tired system. The only places I've experienced rubber tires (other than a long ago trip to Montreal as a kid) is in the Atlanta airport, or the original Jacksonville (FL) Skyway, where snow wasn't exactly an issue.

As far as I know the O'Hare ATS runs fine in all weather except perhaps in the worst snow conditions. It is an all-outdoor service, with stations being enclosed. The CTA O'Hare L service runs parallel to the ATS for a few hundred feet in the median of I-190. That is the steel-wheeled train service some people may be thinking of.

I rode the monorail at Walt Disney World last spring, which uses automotive-type tires on a concrete beam, and was surprised at how rough the ride was. I'd wager that the CTA elevated, with all of its bumps, groans, and squeals, was a much smoother ride.

Hi All,

Assuming these expensive rubber tires on the Montreal Subways are steel belted radials, there would be another problem, should the subways find themselves in below zero weather. The last time I used such tires on my car in such weather, for the first mile or so, until the tires warmed up, they gave a rather rough ride. Seems that the tires take on a compression set with the cold weather, and the tires produce a Thump Thump Thump until the tires warm up and become more flexible. Gives the impression that you picked up some flat tires during the night. That would drive the passengers nuts. I would imagine that underground the temperature would never reach that cold.

pennsy wrote:Assuming these expensive rubber tires on the Montreal Subways are steel belted radials, there would be another problem, should the subways find themselves in below zero weather. The last time I used such tires on my car in such weather, for the first mile or so, until the tires warmed up, they gave a rather rough ride. Seems that the tires take on a compression set with the cold weather, and the tires produce a Thump Thump Thump until the tires warm up and become more flexible. Gives the impression that you picked up some flat tires during the night.

When I lived in New York state, I had steel belted tires on my car and never had this problem you speak of.

PCCs are rated for 15 percent grades but modern cars are lower rated. Rubber tires would be defeating the purpose of steel wheels on steel rails, low rolling resistance, increasing power needs. The rubber tires would also generate more heat

Hi Typesix,

Fifteen percent grade, that is incredible. Where would you find such a grade on PCC's running the city streets ??? However, if all axles are powered it would not seem to be unreasonable that it could take that steep a grade. That steep a grade would give today's car's a problem

Another rubber tired system are the four lines in Santiago, Chile. I don't know much about it, except what's on this page.

Replying to Pennsy's post of December 6:

Various sources declare that the steepest streetcar grade in the United States was 21-Fineview on Pittsburgh Railways, as shown in this photo.

If you do a Google Search for Pittsburgh Railways Fineview grade, you will probably find other references. The grade was just over 12 percent. About 1962, Dad (bless him!) brought me on that route. As I recall, it twisted uphill to a radio antenna, then took a simpler route back downhill. The route left downtown by bridge, then became an awesome loop on the North Side of Pittsburgh.

An article on Light Rail Gradients appears on this page of Light Rail Now.