Route 78: New bus route - Cornwells to 30th St. Express

Well, duh. It is a bus that runs between train stations using Regional Rail fare structure.

Yes, it is popular. But, I don't see this information as a good thing. It would only give support for either raising bus fares (by instituting a model like the Regional Rail zones) or bustituting more trains.

I'm telling you, an earlier train on the Trenton Line would be EXTREMELY popular!

One other factor: this bus runs only as far as Cornwell Heights. A train would have to run all the way to/from Trenton, and incur the costs of doing so.

Maybe the way to go is an hourly-or-better bus in both directions in the hours between the midnight run and the predawn? Run it to FTC if the cost of hourly to Center City is prohibitive, although the revenue from Regional Rail-style fares may counterbalance that. That would encourage greater use of Cornwells Heights as a park-and-ride location even for those with non-traditional schedules, or for those who may have schedule anxiety from the current end of service.

The ultimate goal is more service on the Trenton Line, of course, but we can also provide an intermediate increment of improved service. Why not try it?

R3 Passenger wrote:It would only give support for either raising bus fares (by instituting a model like the Regional Rail zones) or bustituting more trains.

Another way to look at it is that it gives customers service when and where they want it, at cheaper cost than adding additional full-service (Market East to Trenton) rail service.

CComMack wrote:One other factor: this bus runs only as far as Cornwell Heights. A train would have to run all the way to/from Trenton, and incur the costs of doing so.

Keep in mind though that you would then be able to pick up passengers at stations other than Cornwells Heights. This revenue may offset some of the additional costs. Also, certainly I would think that a one departure, one stop bus route that requires 3 articulated buses to cover would warrant a train.

I can see it the other way though; this is service that didn't exist before and apparently is being utilized, even when not being marketed properly (why shouldn't it be included in the Trenton train schedule noted as being served by bus? I also love that Route 78 is listed as a "connecting service" even though by its nature there is no train which meets its one departure time.). I'd be interested to see how an early morning Somerton and Forest Hills direct to CC via Woodhaven Road and I-95 service would do. I would also love to see SEPTA try an hourly last-train to first-train OWL type service on one or more of the lines. I think it would do surprisingly well.

Route 78 discriminates against city residents as it's primary purpose is to serve Bucks County residents, something the train would not do. If SEPTA cannot play ball with Amtrak, scrub the 78 and run a late night/early AM to Langhorne which would serve the far Northeast at Somerton/Forrest Hills. Ideally however, there should be corridor service along I-95 in the city for Torresdale, Tacony and Bridesburg. With the huge changes near Frankford Junction, a station must also be re-opened there as it would also connect with routes 5 and 89, and a short walk from the MFSE Tioga/Erie Torresdale stops.

I would hope that SEPTA approached Philadelphia with a proposal to add a full local train with additional operating subsidy and knowing Philadelphia they likely declined. That being said, I wonder how much, if at all, Bucks kicks in for this specific route.

Hacker wrote:Route 78 discriminates against city residents as it's primary purpose is to serve Bucks County residents

I didn't know that every SEPTA service had to favor Philadelphia residents. Are all the buses and trolleys in Delaware and Montgomery counties that only go as far east as 69th Street also discriminatory? Is it discriminatory to provide service to bring people into Philadelphia for jobs (which is what route 78 does)? Should the Airport service be for Philadelphia residents only?

Hacker wrote:Route 78 discriminates against city residents as it's primary purpose is to serve Bucks County residents, something the train would not do.

LIMITED trains have a long history in railroading... and in SEPTA-land too.

CComMack wrote:One other factor: this bus runs only as far as Cornwell Heights. A train would have to run all the way to/from Trenton, and incur the costs of doing so.

Maybe the way to go is an hourly-or-better bus in both directions in the hours between the midnight run and the predawn? Run it to FTC if the cost of hourly to Center City is prohibitive, although the revenue from Regional Rail-style fares may counterbalance that. That would encourage greater use of Cornwells Heights as a park-and-ride location even for those with non-traditional schedules, or for those who may have schedule anxiety from the current end of service.

The ultimate goal is more service on the Trenton Line, of course, but we can also provide an intermediate increment of improved service. Why not try it?

The 78 quite literally was designed to be the IRS shuttle from the far Northeast & Lower Bucks County when the building moved. The Market Frankford OWL Express also was created to primarily accommodate IRS employees. Honestly, there isn't much ridership on the Trenton Line after midnight to really justify regular train service beyond the one trip in the morning and the after midnight trips.

Hacker wrote:Route 78 discriminates against city residents as it's primary purpose is to serve Bucks County residents, something the train would not do. If SEPTA cannot play ball with Amtrak, scrub the 78 and run a late night/early AM to Langhorne which would serve the far Northeast at Somerton/Forrest Hills. Ideally however, there should be corridor service along I-95 in the city for Torresdale, Tacony and Bridesburg. With the huge changes near Frankford Junction, a station must also be re-opened there as it would also connect with routes 5 and 89, and a short walk from the MFSE Tioga/Erie Torresdale stops.

Route 78 was essentially designed to be a "shuttle" service for IRS employees. The Market-Frankford OWL Express, which leaves from 30th Street Station and runs non-stop between 2nd Street and FTC via I-95, was also created for IRS employees and better serves the needs of the residents that live in the Lower Northeast. The IRS provides funding for these routes; they used to be special trips on the 1 and 14 bus lines when the IRS was based on the Blvd.

Also, Somerton and Forest Hills cannot accommodate the additional parking that was created at Cornwells Heights Station once the IRS moved into town. Cornwells Heights, with 1600 spots in the main lot, is regularly 2/3 full nowadays.

I don't disagree with you about the need to run the 78 as a train trip, as a number of people from Trenton, Bucks County, and the Lower Northeast who don't have the luxury of driving can use the service. I don't believe payment to Amtrak is the sole culprit, though. There's no yard in Trenton for SEPTA at this time, nor is there a convenient turn-back close to Cornwells Heights, so every train heading out that way has to deadhead to/from that location. That's probably a lot more expensive and complicated than running some extra buses at this time.

Hopefully with the success of the 78, not to mention the impending traffic that's sure to come when I-95 goes into MAJOR reconstruction, SEPTA will choose to obtain the Barracks Yard in Trenton (while flood-proofing it) so that better service can run on the Trenton Line.