Rebuild program for GEs

Hello,I was wondering if any railroads back in the early 80'S or late 70's ever began a CRP for GE locomotives?,say like the IC/Paducah jeep rebuilds or the UP SD26 experiments but with U-boat's or dash 7's? or maybe turbocharger upgrade or simplifying the electricals? ie: a GE equal of the retro-fitted pre dash-2 upgrades? thanks again, dash7

Southern Pacific upgraded two U25Bs. They also had reengined four U25Bs with the Sulzer engines but they were not successful.

Santa Fe uprated one U23B to 3000 horsepower and called it an SF30B. The Santa Fe also rebuilt 70 U36Cs into what was called the SF30C. Those units were rated at something like 3100 horsepower.

Santa Fe's SF30C project is the only one I can think of off the top of my head. GE itself had the Super 7 program, which took U-Boats and upgraded them to Dash 7 specs, along with new Dash 8 style carbodies.

Thanks guys, I sorta remember the SF30c and the Super 7's in a pentrax mexican N de M RR video...i think,anyway who say's ya can't rebuild old GE's!,thanks for reminding me! ,cheers dash7 PS: if they can last in the Mexican desert heat im sure they'll last anywhere.

GE had a program to add -7 electrical systems to Alco Century/MLW M series.

Engineer Spike wrote:GE had a program to add -7 electrical systems to Alco Century/MLW M series.

What about the Super 7 series locomotives,weren't/aren't those loco's counted in GE's capital rebuild program also ?

tomjohn wrote:What about the Super 7 series locomotives,weren't/aren't those loco's counted in GE's capital rebuild program also ?

Yes, but that isn't what the question was asking. The question asked about railroads rebuilding GEs.

Metro North is currently having GE rebuilt all of the P32acdm's, including engine upgrades to tier 0 specifications

DutchRailnut wrote:Metro North is currently having GE rebuilt all of the P32acdm's, including engine upgrades to tier 0 specifications

Tier 0? Is that not the same as status quo (keep them running as is)? Just curios.

Tier 0 is EPA regulations for pasenger locomotives, it differs from Tier 2 due to main engine providing HEP.

Generally, the cost of parts from the OEM coupled with the dearth of aftermarket suppliers (both compared to EMD)conspires against railroad shop rebuild projects for GE units.

GE is currently trying to get a piece of the rebuild business with the Inline 6 and 8 cylinder repowering packages they are offering. There are some details in anoter thread on this forum,IIRC..

Super Seis wrote:Generally, the cost of parts from the OEM coupled with the dearth of aftermarket suppliers (both compared to EMD)conspires against railroad shop rebuild projects for GE units.

If GE parts are so expensive how can they compete in the EMD parts business with their own version of EMD new parts such as complete power assemblies, turbo chargers,fuel injectors, blowers, exhaust manifolds and possibly complete engines. The GE parts are designed as upgrades such as piston rings to reduce oil consumption as part of pollution control.

I refer to ASME paper ICES2006-1309 and specifically NTRD 2004-1 contract No. 582-565591-009 paid for by GE,that reports how they got a GP 38 tier 2 certified as far as NOX is concerned. It requires disabling a blower during idle and run 1 and 2. For the purposes of this test they only disconnected the blower and locked it so it wouldn't rotate instead of developing a mechanism to do this operationally. But the point is that GE is spending a lot of money to invade EMD's parts business. Its a mystery to me why its not economic for pirate parts makers don't bother to compete in the more lucrative GE or particularly CAT parts business.

There are certainly aftermarket Cat parts out there, and I am no fan of them. Cat also vigorously markets against the after market.

The huge numbers of old EMD's certainly did a lot to create the huge after market for EMD parts. Big volumes will do a lot to bring prices down.

Engines with extended warranties are also a very good way for an engine maker to reduce the market for aftermarket parts.

Older GE's being a smaller market will always be a more challenging for an aftermarket parts supplier to get the economies of scale that allow for lower pricing. GE is most likely in the EMD parts business for the same reason as many other after market parts suppliers...it's a big market. GE has the added advantage of having a parts supply chain that is already doing business with railroads anyway. That fact alone has to make the idea attractive. If this also helps to reduced delivery costs for GE locomotive parts...well that has to be even more attractive from GE's point of view.

Still if one looks a little farther than the US locomotive scene, then the lack of interest in GE or for that matter Alco engines is to me at least, a bit of a mystery. There are huge numbers of used GE locomotives that have gone to Brazil in recent years and many of those, plus a great many of the GE locos purshased new by Brazilian railroads have recieved any number of upgrades. Mexico too had a fondness for GE locos, including the largest group of Super 7 units bought by anyone. (including an order of "Super 7's" that were built new, not rebuilt)

Super Seis wrote:Generally, the cost of parts from the OEM coupled with the dearth of aftermarket suppliers (both compared to EMD)conspires against railroad shop rebuild projects for GE units.

There is also a lot of EMD bias in a lot of shops too. If one is taught that EMD is "normal" and everything else is "differant" then non EMD rebuild programs face an uphill battle.

In the case of Southern Pacific's still born U25B rebuild program, the biggest issue was cost. SP spent something on the order of $1 million each on the two U25B's they did rebuild, and some parts of the electrical system never did work as well as they might have wanted. The electrical systems on these two units were are combo of GE, EMD and a little SP Sacramento shops thrown in.