RE: Locked threads

[CHIP72]

NOTE - this post is in response to the thread about trackless trolley service being locked on the general commuter railroad/transit board, but my statements are pertinent to the forums in general.

I've only been registered for about a month on here, but I want to get something off my chest about this site's forums, or more specifically the moderating on this site's forums. Simply put, they are moderated WAY TOO TIGHTLY IMO. Specifically, some people get a little too "thread lock" happy when a topic gets outside the narrow focus of a forum. Well guess what people, TRANSPORTATION ISSUES ARE INTERRELATED, REGARDLESS OF WHETHER ITS TRAINS OR SOME OTHER MODE OF TRANSPORTATION YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT. To be fair, I think some of the discussions on here (which occur without being cut off), such as comparing Amtrak to air transportation between market pairs, do acknowledge that interrelationship.

Though some people on here think of trains in terms of being railfans, i.e. they get all excited about thinking about or riding trains or checking out equipment, other people tend to think of trains in terms of the broader context of public transit (for passenger traffic) or freight shipments (for non-passenger traffic). I'm showing my planning-oriented bias here, and some people may disagree, but that is more important when you are talking about real-world transportation issues. People can talk all they want about having more Amtrak service on freight rail lines or trying to get increased freight rail service relative to trucks, but if real-world factors such as product and carrier economics and right-of-way availability and ownership aren't considered, all the talk about wanting increased rail services doesn't amount to a hill of beans.

Make no mistake - I genuinely like and support rail, and personally would like to see rail issues more adequately addressed in transportation planning in general than they current are (and I know from personal experience they aren't, albeit for different reasons on the passenger and freight sides). But to have such a narrow focus - it would be like having an aviation forum and not acknowledging the forms of transportation that got you to the airport, or having a roadway/highway forum that ignores pedestrian or bicycle issues. Perhaps the problem is my interest in transportation issues is broader than rail (even though I have a higher interest in passenger rail than other forms of transportation), and if that's the case, that's my problem and I need to find a broader-based forum. But to lock threads because they talk about buses - even though passenger rail and buses (or trackless trolleys) are trying to accomplish the same thing, get people out of their cars and make the transportation system work more efficiently - is narrow-minded IMO.

[UPRR engineer]

Id have to also agree, far as Wig on the Amtrak Forum. He'll throw a padlock on at the drop of a hat.

This is how i use to see things there.

1 Stray off topic a bit to better the discussion: Ya i think thats ok, little redirection with a warning.

2 Compare something non-related to trains: Thats fine if it moves the topic forward.

3 Heated discussion with a little anger in the posts, no flaming yet: Thats good reading, warning again to cool down, maybe a lock overnight as Mr. Norman has done with a few of my topics. Open it back up with supervision. No killing yet. "How am i supposed to get a chance to chime in if it stays locked?"

4 Flaming: Also something fun to read. Now thats the time to lock it up, maybe take the time to clean up the topic by removing a few of Mr. UPRR's posts, if its a good topic. (that has happened also ) Open it back up, see where it goes.

Mr. Norman did a great job, good supervision, great leader, took the time to clean up posts, and had a good... "grasp?".... when things had went too far and took appropriate action. (knew when and what to do) Lord of The Locks he wasnt.

The Flagship of RR.net needs a little piracy every now and then, else no ones gonna wanna read any of it. She's better out at sea with the sharks, then tied up at port all the time.

"HOW SAY THE CREW?"

[Komachi]

I can't speak for all in the moderator caste, but I tend to be a tad more laid back with my running of my forums. As long as things stay civil and mostly on topic, all's well with me. I can be strict when I need to be, but I'm also fair.

I tend to issue a few warnings when things stray too far off topic or get too hot and haven't really had to use my "magic locks" except in a few cases, mostly in regards to redundant threads (how many threads do we need in the BNSF forum regarding the new "swoosh" paint scheme? ONE.) and spam.


But, that's just me. Each moderator is different and has their own way of administering their forums. Some are laid back, some are heavy handed. I think "traffic" in the forums dictate how heavy handed or "absentee" the moderator will act. In the less frequented forums, there's more room to "roam" off topic (to some degree), whereas in the more popular forums have a potential to spin out of control and sink into uncontrolled chaos if not "policed" on a regular basis.


Those are my observations on the subject, whatever that's worth to you.

[pennsy]

Hi All,

It is somewhat difficult to be objective on this one, but I agree with Komachi. Tolerance is necessary. Install a warning before locking up the thread. Even a rattlesnake warns you before he strikes. Let's have a warning before the padlock goes on.

Additionally, I also agree that going off on a tangent from the topic adds to the discussion. It allows one to learn something new each time. I draw the line with some of the more verbose contributors when they take a page to say something and by the time you finish reading it you are comatose.

[Mike Roque]

Simply put, they are moderated WAY TOO TIGHTLY IMO. Specifically, some people get a little too "thread lock" happy when a topic gets outside the narrow focus of a forum.

We believe that focused, on-topic discussion is what separates this board from other boards. The less irrelevant, off-topic information there is in the forums, the easier it is to find what you're looking for. Therein lies value.

Well guess what people, TRANSPORTATION ISSUES ARE INTERRELATED, REGARDLESS OF WHETHER ITS TRAINS OR SOME OTHER MODE OF TRANSPORTATION YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT.[...]But to have such a narrow focus - it would be like having an aviation forum and not acknowledging the forms of transportation that got you to the airport, or having a roadway/highway forum that ignores pedestrian or bicycle issues.

That's not the issue here...of course it's related. However, our focus is railroads, not buses, highways, or other transportation systems. Toothbrushes and hamburgers are related too, but you don't go to McDonald's for a toothbrush, and you don't get burgers at the dentist. It's about focus and purpose.

Perhaps the problem is my interest in transportation issues is broader than rail (even though I have a higher interest in passenger rail than other forms of transportation), and if that's the case, that's my problem and I need to find a broader-based forum.

This forum is what it is...railroads. If the scope of your interest is broader, you're probably looking for a forum of broader scope. We're here to talk about railroads.

But to lock threads because they talk about buses - even though passenger rail and buses (or trackless trolleys) are trying to accomplish the same thing, get people out of their cars and make the transportation system work more efficiently - is narrow-minded IMO.

RAILROAD.NET is generally geared towards railroads, loosely defined as steel wheels on steel rails, and trackless trolleys are generally considered off-topic.

[pennsy]

Hi Mike,

Your comments have been noted and appreciated. However, I believe our comment on a warning before action is taken is valid and should be given serious consideration.

[Rockingham Racer]

I agree. Things are getting "paternal" around here on some forums with recently appointed moderators.

[F3A]

I'd like to know just how the new Amtrak forum "moderators" were selected.

I never heard that there was an opening for a moderator(s). Did any of you? Was there even an announcement that people could apply for the moderator position? I never saw it. Did any of you?

In short, why wasn't the moderator position for the Amtrak Forum open to all members? Is that a special forum that requires 'internal' appointment?

Have we witnessed the "old boy network" in action here?

Something stinks here.

[F3A]

Id have to also agree, far as Wig on the Amtrak Forum. He'll throw a padlock on at the drop of a hat.

This is how i use to see things there.

1 Stray off topic a bit to better the discussion: Ya i think thats ok, little redirection with a warning.

2 Compare something non-related to trains: Thats fine if it moves the topic forward.

3 Heated discussion with a little anger in the posts, no flaming yet: Thats good reading, warning again to cool down, maybe a lock overnight as Mr. Norman has done with a few of my topics. Open it back up with supervision. No killing yet. "How am i supposed to get a chance to chime in if it stays locked?"

4 Flaming: Also something fun to read. Now thats the time to lock it up, maybe take the time to clean up the topic by removing a few of Mr. UPRR's posts, if its a good topic. (that has happened also ) Open it back up, see where it goes.

Mr. Norman did a great job, good supervision, great leader, took the time to clean up posts, and had a good... "grasp?".... when things had went too far and took appropriate action. (knew when and what to do) Lord of The Locks he wasnt.

The Flagship of RR.net needs a little piracy every now and then, else no ones gonna wanna read any of it. She's better out at sea with the sharks, then tied up at port all the time.

"HOW SAY THE CREW?"

I definately agree. Wiggie and Perky both have been thread-lock happy since "taking over" the Amtrak forum.

[gp80mac]

Yeah....

With the amount of padlocks being thrown around, I think the moderators have stock in Master Lock.

Ease up a bit.

[Irish Chieftain]

TRANSPORTATION ISSUES ARE INTERRELATED, REGARDLESS OF WHETHER ITS TRAINS OR SOME OTHER MODE OF TRANSPORTATION YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT

Sorry, but that is not correct. A forum for railroads is not a forum about buses, unless the bus mention is about how they connect to rail systems in particular. Like it or not, the focus of this message board, and its individual forums, is narrow. Should we start to entertain threads about airlines, cruise ships, ferryboats and automobiles because they are superficially "interrelated" to railroads due to being automated modes of transportation? The answer is no—there are forums specifically about buses, and this is not one of them. Furthermore, I'd go so far as to say that creating threads about buses without relating them to rail somehow is a violation of the terms of use of this site. You don't dictate policy here; we mods merely enforce it.

BTW, you've shown very bad form by your dispensing with "netiquette" (all-caps is shouting, and even worse, you are shouting while in the wrong). Please dispense with the petulance, not good form.

[Otto Vondrak]

Locks are applied so infrequently that everyone gets up in arms when they are indeed used.

Without responding to individual situations, we have new moderator teams in the MBTA forum and the Amtrak forum. Both teams are being "tested" by some users, and the new teams are also developing their own system of moderation as everyone gets comfortable in their new positions.

Be patient. We're all volunteers here.

-otto-

[Otto Vondrak]

UPRR Engineer- I agree with all your points except Number 4. We generally do not appreciate threads that degrade into blatant name-calling. If you wake up one morning and find a thread has fourteen flame posts and is not going anywhere, then that would be a good candidate to lock up for a while (and delete the flame posts).

-otto-

[JoeG]

F3A--This site isn't a democracy. The owners pay for the site and get to pick the moderators. Sometimes they publicly ask for volunteers, sometimes not.
I think Mr Norman was a great moderator, but I often thought he was too quick with the padlock. My first reaction was that Messrs Halstead and Perkowski were even quicker with the lock, but I now think they are no quicker to lock threads than was Mr Norman. I think maybe it takes a while to get used to new moderators' style, and we need to give the new guys a chance.
Personally, I think locks should be applied with extreme rarity, but it may be that if I were in charge of a contentious forum I would find I needed them more than I would have predicted.

[F3A]

F3A--This site isn't a democracy. The owners pay for the site and get to pick the moderators. Sometimes they publicly ask for volunteers, sometimes not.
I think Mr Norman was a great moderator, but I often thought he was too quick with the padlock. My first reaction was that Messrs Halstead and Perkowski were even quicker with the lock, but I now think they are no quicker to lock threads than was Mr Norman. I think maybe it takes a while to get used to new moderators' style, and we need to give the new guys a chance.
Personally, I think locks should be applied with extreme rarity, but it may be that if I were in charge of a contentious forum I would find I needed them more than I would have predicted.

Joe, with regard specifically to the Amtrak Forum, if you look up two posts previously, Otto stated that moderators were selected by "volunteers". If that were the case, then why was GBN's postition at least not advertised? You cannot volunteer for something if you don't know that there is an opening. And besides, it appears that the powers that be knew well in advance that GBN was going to retire. In GBN's departing message, they stated that they conducted an "extensive search" for a replacement. I'll state again, I (and I'm sure many others), were completely and absolutely unaware that there was going to be a change in moderators. I knew of no search. Did any of you? I find this switch to be highly unorthodox...and by all appearances completely prearranged.