• Rail group projects service in five years (Calgary-Edmonton)

  • General discussion of passenger rail systems not otherwise covered in the specific forums in this category, including high speed rail.
General discussion of passenger rail systems not otherwise covered in the specific forums in this category, including high speed rail.

Moderators: mtuandrew, gprimr1

  by Sylvain727
 
The Calgary-Edmonton High Speed Rail Corridor

Local passengers be riding North America's first bullet train in as little as five years,says an enginner from Alberta High-Speed Rail Inc.

All it would take is for the province to give the green light Ralph Garrett,vice-president,infrastructure for the Calgary firm told Kiwanis members in Red Deer on Monday night.

"Alberta's ready for high-speed rail,Everything's coming together . The stars are in alignment."

Garrett said that,to the best of his knowledge,his company is the only one currently attempting to put a bullet train in motion along the province's Hwy 2 corridor,between Edmonton and Calgary.

However,he assumes that others will step forward if and when Premier Ed Stelmach and his government put out tenders for the system.

Garrett's group,funded by investors from throughout Western Canada,proposes that the province buy the land and build the tracks. Alberta High-Speed Rail would then provide the trains,paying a toll to the province for each trip made.

He estimated that taxpayers would have to invest $ 1.8 billion to cover the costs of buying the land and building a double set of tracks,with those costs returned through the toll charged against the trains.

Financed over 40 years,that would cost taxpayers about $120 million a year,which Garrett said is the price of three overpasses.

Ultimately,Red Deer becomes the big winner,he said. The train trip would cut travelling time to either of the big cities to 42 minutes,with trips running every hour in each direction,from 6:30 a.m. until 9:30 p.m.

"Red Deer,this is where it's going to be,I'll tell you. With the two and a half million people living in the corridor today,and with the huge influx of population,just about everybody ends up living in the corridor someplace."

The average fare from Calgary to Edmonton would run at a maximum of $65,depending on discounts. That's about $5 more than it costs to make the same trip by bus,said Garrett.

The biggest savings will be in a amount of time people can spend doing something other than looking through the windows of a motor vehicule,he said.

In 2003 study by the Van Horne Institute determined there were about six million trips between Calgary and Edmonton every year at that time.

"We think we can capture about a third of those. Take two million people and put them on a train,and every time they ride that train,they save an hour and a half. You put three million hours back into society ,that's 1,500 person years. It's found for the resources for the province."

An exact alignment of the route has not been finalized,said Garrett. However,it has been assumed that the route would follow a line running west of Hwy 2,avoiding small towns. About 19 per cent of the route would be located on the CP Rail right-of-way,next to the freight line.

It would be completely fenced and level crossings would be eliminated through the use of underpasses and over passes.

A couple of locations have been considerated for a station in Red Deer,he said. One site is across the road from the Alberta Springs Golf Course,and the company is also considering the potential for placing the station at the Red Deer Regional Airport.

One of the biggest challenges,in Alberta's harsh climate,will be to prevent frost heaves from damaging the rail bed.

Even that challenge can be met,possibly by insulating the rail bed to avoid the abrupt temperature changes,said Garrett.

His company's pitch can be viewed online,at www.albertahighspeedrail.com

This is an article of the Albertalocalnews.com .

Raily yours.

Sylvain727

  by RVRR 15
 
I'll believe it when I see it. Not even VIA connects the two cities.

  by Chafford1
 
A 300km line running at 300 km/h (186mph) built and operating in 5 years!! :wink:

  by jtr1962
 
Chafford1 wrote:A 300km line running at 300 km/h (186mph) built and operating in 5 years!!
That's what got me excited about this. When I first read the thread title, I figured it would be another ho-hum 110 mph diesel-powered line because this is what passes for "high-speed" in most of North America these days. I almost didn't want to bother reading the link because I was expecting to be underwhelmed. When I did, I thought great, an honest-to-goodness electric line running at 300 km/h! Finally! Now let's hope that this isn't derailed like so many other promising proposals have been. I suspect once it's built, the US will quickly follow suit as a matter of national pride.

  by Chafford1
 
jtr1962 wrote:
Chafford1 wrote:A 300km line running at 300 km/h (186mph) built and operating in 5 years!!
That's what got me excited about this. When I first read the thread title, I figured it would be another ho-hum 110 mph diesel-powered line because this is what passes for "high-speed" in most of North America these days. I almost didn't want to bother reading the link because I was expecting to be underwhelmed. When I did, I thought great, an honest-to-goodness electric line running at 300 km/h! Finally! Now let's hope that this isn't derailed like so many other promising proposals have been. I suspect once it's built, the US will quickly follow suit as a matter of national pride.
I would be as happy as you if this line came to fruition. However, building a 186mph high speed line over 190miles within 5 years sounds completely unrealistic when the alignments haven't even been finalised and the funding hasn't been approved.

  by Nasadowsk
 
My guess is if it ever gets past the dreaming stage, the Canadian government will use it as a place to dump BBD's jettrain, given what they've dumped into it.

Depending on who you believe, Bombardier wouldn't be where they are right now, or would be flat out out of business, if it weren't for the Canadian government bankrolling them...

  by RVRR 15
 
BBD's JetTrain doesn't operate at 186 mph, so that guess is flawed.

  by Nasadowsk
 
What makes you think it won't get watered down to 150 or 125mph?

  by David Benton
 
surely bombardier is capable of coming up with a high speed diesel .
Jetrain is history , well the turbine is .

  by RVRR 15
 
Nasadowsk wrote:What makes you think it won't get watered down to 150 or 125mph?
Let's see it get funded first.

Remember, the JetTrain is meant for operation on traditional rail corridors.
David Benton wrote:surely bombardier is capable of coming up with a high speed diesel
Running at 186 miles per hour? Thus far, the fastest that diesels go in revenue service is 125 mph. No matter how fast a diesel will go in tests, the intended top speed is still 125 mph (recall the Talgo XXI, which was tested at 152 mph).

  by Chafford1
 
David Benton wrote:surely bombardier is capable of coming up with a high speed diesel
They have. It's called Voyager or Meridian and runs at speeds up to 125mph on non-electrified routes in the UK.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombardier_Voyager_family


Talgo also have a high speed diesel which runs at up to 220km/h (137mph)

http://www.talgo.com/htm/English/productos1.htm

The Chinese are also planning to enter the diesel market with their 140mph 'Polaris' trains.
  by Sylvain727
 
:-) Hi,Everyone.

I think the Talgo XXII could be a good idea to put this train on the future high speed rail corridor between Calgary to Edmonton in Alberta Canada.

I think the Talgo XXII could be also a good idea to put the same train on the Quebec-Windsor Corridor to serve Quebec City,Montreal,Ottawa,Toronto and finally Windsor.

Raily Yours.

Sylvain727

  by RVRR 15
 
The Talgo XXI is meant for the existing corridors, not specially-built high-speed corridors; and since this consortium (public-private partnership won't work out well for Alberta HSR) has declared the intention of running at an average speed of 125 mph, then that implies top speeds in the 186-mph range. Trains like the Talgo XXI would be fine if the former CP between Calgary and Edmonton was upgraded to 125-mph running.

Besides, where in Edmonton will this train go? Old Strathcona? The present-day Canadian stops so far away from the center of Edmonton as to not actually serve the city, which makes it useless (it's by the old downtown airport, and the right of way that used to continue into Edmonton is now a paved rail-trail); and the light rail in Edmonton does not go anywhere near it. The historic trolley runs on the right of way that used to have the main station in Edmonton, and apparently the consortium thinks that they are going to be able to gain access to its route (over the High-Level Bridge).

Not to mention, the more I read about this consortium's intentions, the less I like it. They intend to build high-level platforms, which is absurd since trains like the TGV use low-level platforms and would be more suitable for the existing station in Calgary, not to mention low platforms would be cheaper to build for whatever station they manage to get in Edmonton and intermediate stations. Also, even if they use the ICE 3 (as depicted on the front page of their alternate web site), that train also has low-platform access.
  by Sylvain727
 
:-) The Canadian Pacific Rail track still exist between Calgary and Edmonton.

I'm been to check that at their website.

Raily Yours.

Sylvain727

  by jtr1962
 
RVRR 15 wrote:They intend to build high-level platforms, which is absurd since trains like the TGV use low-level platforms and would be more suitable for the existing station in Calgary, not to mention low platforms would be cheaper to build for whatever station they manage to get in Edmonton and intermediate stations. Also, even if they use the ICE 3 (as depicted on the front page of their alternate web site), that train also has low-platform access.
High-level platforms allow much faster loading. I would think reduced dwell times are important from a high-average speed standpoint. TGV stops are something like 2 minutes instead of 30 seconds precisely because of the decision to use low-level platforms. That extra 90 seconds per stop adds up to many minutes on a run with half a dozen stops. Granted, this line only has one intermediate stop so far, but perhaps down the road it will be extended, or maybe they will have locals with a few more stops. High-level platforms are a good way of future-proofing yourself. What if the line gets really busy? Japan has been using high-level platforms for their bullet trains from day one. Like it or not, high level platforms are probably the universal standard these days on most new lines. A lot of that has to do with public perception of how you should board a train. People just want the doors to slide open and then you walk directly on board, without climbing stairs. Yes, low-level platforms cost less to build, but in the context of an already expensive rail line a few hundred thousand more per station is a tiny percentage of the budget. The time savings easily pays for the cost anyway.