"Sacrifical Lambs' for the Mail

New Idea I would of Dumped the Federal and keep the 3 Rivers but it would lose it's Sleeper to use it to make a Daily Cardinal.

AmtrakFan

AmtrakFan wrote:New Idea I would of Dumped the Federal and keep the 3 Rivers but it would lose it's Sleeper to use it to make a Daily Cardinal.

It's not a matter of Amtrak cutting "one train." Amtrak cut the Three Rivers. Cutting one train, especially on the NEC, is not the same as cutting any other train. Pretending Amtrak cut the Three Rivers to save money, cutting the overnight Regional wouldn't yield the same savings. No equipment would be saved (since it would otherwise be sitting in a yard overnight). That train carries upwards of 300 passengers (of course, the 3R does as well, but that's another story).

I wouldn't have dumped any train if I was in charge, but Federal for Three Rivers is not an even "trade."

ryanov wrote:RMadison: Apparently your prediction was correct?

Let's just say I was tipped off.

Of interest to me is why was Amtrak required to post "The 180 day notice" regarding the Three Rivers PGH-CHI, yet apparently they are simply discontinuing "89-90 SAV-MIA without such? Lest we note that no change is being made to the Silver Star's existing routing JAX-Auburndale; as such Waldo, Ocala, and Wildwood are loosing their service (a mistake if I may add) effective November 1, which is "uh not exactly" 180 days in the future.

Enquiring mind wants to know.

Hard as it may be to believe, The Wall Street Journal actually "put the spin" in Amtrak's favor with an article that appeared yesterday regarding the upcoming discontinuance of handling US Mail.

For those with access to the Journal's subscription web site, "here you go":
http://online.wsj.com/article/0,,SB1095 ... 77,00.html

For "the rest of us", these "brief passages" will have to suffice:

Regarding discontinuance of Mail, reporter Daniel Machalaba writes:

Amtrak is about to try to shorten the amount of time it takes many of its long-distance trains to get from here to there.

The nationwide passenger railroad plans to stop carrying mail for the U.S. Postal Service next month, a move that will free Amtrak to focus entirely on passengers for the first time since it began operations in 1971. Amtrak says it expects to eliminate delays at stations across the country that often occurred while employees loaded and unloaded mail. Passengers also will be able to reach their seats and sleeping-car rooms without trekking past a line of mail cars.

Regarding the discontinuance of the Three Rivers and the Palmetto:

The shake-up will create new inconveniences for some Amtrak passengers, since some train service that was in place mostly to carry mail will be reduced or eliminated.

Gilbert B Norman wrote:Of interest to me is why was Amtrak required to post "The 180 day notice" regarding the Three Rivers PGH-CHI, yet apparently they are simply discontinuing "89-90 SAV-MIA without such? Lest we note that no change is being made to the Silver Star's existing routing JAX-Auburndale; as such Waldo, Ocala, and Wildwood are loosing their service (a mistake if I may add) effective November 1, which is "uh not exactly" 180 days in the future.

Enquiring mind wants to know.

Amtrak is required to post 180-day notices whenever it plans to discontinue all service to a given stop or stops, or an entire route. With the loss of the Three Rivers on its current PGH-CHI routing there are several communities that will be left with no Amtrak service whatsoever. Not so with the stops you mention in Florida.

While Waldo, Ocala, and Wildwood are losing their RAIL service, Amtrak will continue to serve them with dedicated Thruway connections. The remaining stops that will lose trains 89-90 will be served by other Amtrak trains. This distinction allows Amtrak to skirt the 180-day train-off notification requirement.

cbaker wrote:Amtrak is required to post 180-day notices whenever it plans to discontinue all service to a given stop or stops, or an entire route. With the loss of the Three Rivers on its current PGH-CHI routing there are several communities that will be left with no Amtrak service whatsoever. Not so with the stops you mention in Florida.

While Waldo, Ocala, and Wildwood are losing their RAIL service, Amtrak will continue to serve them with dedicated Thruway connections. The remaining stops that will lose trains 89-90 will be served by other Amtrak trains. This distinction allows Amtrak to skirt the 180-day train-off notification requirement.

If that is the case, then why did Amtrak have to post a 180-day notice when they discontinued the Kentucky Cardinal and Lake Country Limited? In both cases, Amtrak provided Thruway service along the route, so, based on that logic, they could have cut the trains right away.

Be it assured, Mr. Madison, the 180 day Notice was given with regard to the Lake Country.

Can't speak for the KEYCARD, but I would rather guess same was given there.

With respect to my concerns noted earlier, Mr. Baker has provided a perfectly logical explanation, for which I extend thanks.

Gilbert B Norman wrote:Be it assured, Mr. Madison, the 180 day Notice was given with regard to the Lake Country.

Can't speak for the KEYCARD, but I would rather guess same was given there.

With respect to my concerns noted earlier, Mr. Baker has provided a perfectly logical explanation, for which I extend thanks.

Yes. Both trains were given 180-day notices, which is why the explanation doesn't make sense to me. If a Thruway bus is an adequate substitute to get around the 180 day requirement, then why did the KC and LCL have to run for an extra 6 months, despite the existence of multiple Thruways on the route?

I cannot recall Ambus substitution for either Lake Country or KEYCARD (yup, had one once upon a time) when they were killed, but I could be mistaken.

Gilbert B Norman wrote:I cannot recall Ambus substitution for either Lake Country or KEYCARD (yup, had one once upon a time) when they were killed, but I could be mistaken.

Amtrak had, and continues to have, a couple of Thruway buses to Louisville, and several to Janesville/Madison. These buses even ran concurrently with 850 and the Lake Country.

RMadisonWI wrote:

Gilbert B Norman wrote:Be it assured, Mr. Madison, the 180 day Notice was given with regard to the Lake Country.

Can't speak for the KEYCARD, but I would rather guess same was given there.

With respect to my concerns noted earlier, Mr. Baker has provided a perfectly logical explanation, for which I extend thanks.

Yes. Both trains were given 180-day notices, which is why the explanation doesn't make sense to me. If a Thruway bus is an adequate substitute to get around the 180 day requirement, then why did the KC and LCL have to run for an extra 6 months, despite the existence of multiple Thruways on the route?

In the case of the Kentucky Cardinal and the Lake Country Limited, the 180-day notices were given primarily because of the discontinuance of the fledgling mail & express service those trains afforded, and which the Thruways can not protect. Besides that, the K Card served cities such as Louisville for a brief time. No Amtrak rail service currently serves the southeastern extreme end of the K Card's route (IND-LVL), and Amtrak did not contract for a Thruway substitute either.

In the case of Ocala, Wldo and Wildwood those M&E services were not being provided to those communities - just the passenger rail service, which is being adeptly (if not first choice) protected by Thruway motorcoach.

Did that brutal 2000 winter Kill the LCL when it often had to be cancelled due to lack of cars? Also an Amtrak wmplyoee who I knew by assocation said it sometimes only had three passengers on the train.

AmtrakFan

I wished that Amtrak would be able to continue carrying Mail and Express. Perhaps if BNSF does discontinue the segment of track that the Southwest Chief uses between Newton, KS and Albequerque, New Mexico. Amtrak should buy it, rebuild it, make it better than the new BNSF Transcon Freight line between Chicago and Los Angreles, and perhaps BNSF would want to run on it, and perhaps Amtrak would be in a better position to negotiate track access all over the BNSF system, and Mail and Express could a big part of the deal.

We need more passenger trains. and it seems railroads that were once firm believers of Passenger Trains up to the end, are openly hostile to Amtrak. I would like Amtrak to be able to restore service to Southern Montana, and more North South Trains. Also, Amtrak and the Postal Service should work on designing a mail car that could use Roll-On, Roll Off principles to reduce dwell times.

AmtrakFan

I think the second half of your post pretty much answers why the LCL was killed.

railfanofewu wrote:I wished that Amtrak would be able to continue carrying Mail and Express.....We need more passenger trains...

Me too I wish they could still Carry M & E. But with buying the line it would cost too mcuh $$$$$ Also I would like to see Amtrak add more service when they can a Southern Montana Line form Chicago to Seattle, a Chicago to Miami Run, MSP to Houston and a Chicago to Houston Train.

AmtrakFan