"Better Value Than Acela - www.LimoLiner.com

John_Perkowski wrote:He'll say "I took LimoLiner."

I noted the Corporate Communications and the Publicity Person at Amtrak were two of the folks Kummant axed. Assuming Amtrak can keep the trains running, OTP and WINTERTIME speed are two selling points for rail over road.

I respectuflully disagree Mr. Perkowski...

A bus is a bus is a bus.

Its not Acela and its not regional service...not even close.

Mr CNJ,

I agree, a bus is a bus. Most executives, though, will attempt to wordsmith it. Trust me, "happy to glad" is alive and well in the world of business communications.

IF Amtrak advertises and competes, and if:
- its OTP is at least as good as LL
- its mechanical reliability is as good as LL

then Amtrak can put this particular competition to bed.

OTOH, if Amtrak surrenders the advertising front to LL, then it deserves what it gets.

As a consultant who has to explain my travel expenses to my client, here is how it would go:

(BTW, I always travel to NYC the night before, since my meetings are usually at 8 AM or earlier):

Client: how did you get here?
Me: bus
Client: What! You don't have to take the bus!
Me: it was the limoliner, it saved $XX, and it wasn't that bad (or we got stuck in traffic, or it was horrible)
Client: good job saving money, but you don't have to take the bus

OR

Client: how did you get here?
Me: Acela
Client: The train IS great
Me: And it saves $$
Client: Bonus!

OR

Client: how did you get here?
Me: plane
Client: Doesn't flying xxxx these days?
Me: yeah
Client: yeah

dbperry wrote:As a consultant who has to explain my travel expenses to my client, here is how it would go:

(BTW, I always travel to NYC the night before, since my meetings are usually at 8 AM or earlier):

Client: how did you get here?
Me: bus
Client: What! You don't have to take the bus!
Me: it was the limoliner, it saved $XX, and it wasn't that bad (or we got stuck in traffic, or it was horrible)
Client: good job saving money, but you don't have to take the bus

OR

Client: how did you get here?
Me: Acela
Client: The train IS great
Me: And it saves $$
Client: Bonus!

OR

Client: how did you get here?
Me: plane
Client: Doesn't flying xxxx these days?
Me: yeah
Client: yeah

If they realy care, or just want to save money.

it could also go:

Client: how did you get here?
Me: Acela
Client: Why did you take the Regional, it could save me $$$

If I'm going to spend that much money, I might as well take Amtrak. Until I strike it rich though, I'm taking Greyhound(or maybe now Fung Wah, as being that I'm a college student, Greyhound is now the bus for people with money).

dbperry wrote: If they realy care, or just want to save money.

it could also go:

Client: how did you get here?
Me: Acela
Client: Why did you take the Regional, it could save me $$$

Although this never came up in any business travel I made, the simple answer to that would be that as a business traveler, you expect to travel business class, be it train OR plane. It's named 'Business Class' for a reason.

MODERATOR'S NOTE:

Are we still discussing the LimoLiner vs. the Acela Express, or are we sidetracked on "why I ride Amtrak" and the definition of "Business" is?

I'm under the belief that this thread has just about run it's course; but I'll give it another day or so before I make the curtain call.

Marketing and advertising work to develop perceptions. SO how you percieve bus vs train OR how you percieve LimoLiner vs Amtrak OR Limoliner vs train (how LimoLiner sets your perception of them against Amtrak) is your perception of the service and the discussion here. The reality is that Limoliner is pitting itself against high end Acela and air services. If you cannot afford any of the three, you are not in their gunsights so to speak and they don't care how you feel about them. But if you look down on any train or any bus as too plebian and don't like airline travel for any reason, LimoLiner wants you. It is marketing (need and service) not operations that will make them successful.

henry6 wrote:Marketing and advertising work to develop perceptions. SO how you percieve bus vs train OR how you percieve LimoLiner vs Amtrak OR Limoliner vs train (how LimoLiner sets your perception of them against Amtrak) is your perception of the service and the discussion here. The reality is that Limoliner is pitting itself against high end Acela and air services. If you cannot afford any of the three, you are not in their gunsights so to speak and they don't care how you feel about them. But if you look down on any train or any bus as too plebian and don't like airline travel for any reason, LimoLiner wants you. It is marketing (need and service) not operations that will make them successful.

Its still a bus though.

No thanks.

And that is your perception. You are not wrong because that is how you percieve the products being discussed. Another who buys the product because he is impressed enough bares his perception and he is not wrong because that is how he percieves the products being discussed. ETC.

To me,

The criteria for choosing transportation are:

- Affordability
- Time in transit, door to door.
- Timeliness of the transportation mode
- Comfort
- Mode

I would think most people have some combination of these factors. Some weight mode more than affordability. Some rate comfort more than mode.

LimoLiner will win the transport battle in this market if and only if:
- Its OTP is better than Acela
- Its fare is competitive with Acela
- Its comfort is greater than Acela.

From what I've seen, Amtrak needs to keep their OTP up! Gee, isn't that the biggest single problem we seem to discuss here about Amtrak? OTP?

John_Perkowski wrote:To me,

The criteria for choosing transportation are:

- Affordability
- Time in transit, door to door.
- Timeliness of the transportation mode
- Comfort
- Mode

I would think most people have some combination of these factors. Some weight mode more than affordability. Some rate comfort more than mode.

LimoLiner will win the transport battle in this market if and only if:
- Its OTP is better than Acela
- Its fare is competitive with Acela
- Its comfort is greater than Acela.

From what I've seen, Amtrak needs to keep their OTP up! Gee, isn't that the biggest single problem we seem to discuss here about Amtrak? OTP?

I've driven I-95 and the I-90/84/684/287 corridors many times between Boston and New York.

Unless you drive overnight (and in good weather conditions), its physically impossible to match the timeliness of Acela...or a Regional for that matter.

LimoLiner is substantially cheaper than Acela first class, and moderately cheaper than Acela business class on weekdays. It doesn't claim to be as fast as Acela. The more important question, I think, is, Will it be able to keep to its advertised times?
For me, the heart of the matter is that I don't like the motion of buses; it's hard for me to relax on them, and sometimes I have trouble reading on them. So, for me, LimoLiner is out; I'd take a regional train to save money if I didn't want to pay for Acela. For others who feel perfectly comfortable on buses, I think the question comes down to whether they post realistic schedules.

Going over the link again quickly I did not notice any parking provisions. This, I would think would be an invonvenience for many, no matter what their economic status...but then again, at that status, parking cars may not be thier probllem either!

I will have to side with Mr. CNJ in this thread. A bus is a bus, and that is the perception of most business people I know. Most business travellers won't even consider a bus. Most business travellers I know only have the plane / driving mentality.

I do not think LL has the same exposure as the Acela or Amtrak in the marketplace it's looking to serve. As a business traveller who uses various modes on the NEC, I would not use LL.

I consider my business travel to be "mode neutral." Here is my list of criteria in chosing how I get to where I need to be when travelling on business:
1) Meeting the needs of my company, and our meeting timelines are what is most important to me.
2) Secondly is the cost. I can justify a higher cost if the lowest cost option does not allow me to meet criteria #1.
3) If conditions 1 & 2 are satisfied, the mode and carrier are my choice. Whenever this occurs and if Acela is an option, that is my choice due to personnal preference.

LL does not appear on the radar screen for me. I do not want to go from a hotel to another hotel in the cities it serves. A major train station or airport has amenities I expect when travelling on business. For ground transportation, I would question the ride quality of the bus. From these pictures, it looks as if there is only 1 or 2 small conference tables. Acela has a quiet and comfortable ride and at least 4 tables in each car.

Acela has room to get up and move around. I can take a cellphone call in a quiet part of the train. I have never riden LL, but I do not feel I could do the same on a bus.

Acela has nearly hourly departures from a major station with easy access to mass transit and other ground transportation.

Slick marketing campaign or not, my opinion is that it will be hard for people to make a switch to a bus. People have pre-concieved notions about what to expect from their travel choices. This can work against the Acela as well for those who have never tried taking the train as an alternative.