First Shots of 5000s Testing

Hi all,

I've been away from Chicago for almost a year and have lost touch with railroading events here. How long will the 5000's be tested before a go/no go decision is made? Any ideas on which lines would get them first?

orangeline wrote:Hi all,

I've been away from Chicago for almost a year and have lost touch with railroading events here. How long will the 5000's be tested before a go/no go decision is made? Any ideas on which lines would get them first?

If anyone in Chicago knew THAT answer they should be buying lottery tickets....get the drift????

The original, original schedule had the 5000s in revenue testing carrying cash customers by December 2009. It's late February, 2010, in a week from now and there's no revenue test schedule in sight. Get the drift???? The words of "almost complete failure" come to mind. Is it that the new cars are too complicated technologically speaking or is it poor workmanship and poor quality control in the workforce in upstate New York????

DH

Ran across this site while googling "test train". Saw it for the first time (Quincy stop) on March 4th and I believe it was emulating the pink line run as it had 54th & Cermak on the front car.

Sorry, no number off the cars, but if I ever see it in operation again I'll take a look

I saw them today. At first I thought it was a slow-ordered train, but once it started accelerating, I noticed inverter whine. Yep, the cars were in the 5000 series. The train was headed south at Armitage around 9:30a. Signboards said loop (brown line) and there were big paper signs noting "test train".

Stop the presses!!!!!! Only four months behind time!!!!! Revenue service using an eight car train of 5000 series AC cars is at last scheduled to begin first week in April on the Red Line. Stay tuned for details.

David Harrison

David, if it were something I was in charge of buying or selling, I'd agree that the delay is unacceptable. I've been private sector my whole life and four month delays are obscene in the capital equipment market.

That said, I'd be hard pressed to name a public railroad project that wasn't over budget, over weight, under funded, late, and having technical issues. Four months isn't much of a surprise to me. If you think about the projects out there now, must are running into some type of trouble - CSS 300's, SEPTA Silverliner V's, MTA M8's, etc... I think it has a lot to do with the structure of public transit contracting - low order volumes compared to freight equipment (SD70 or GEVO) mean there are less units to support the R&D spend and help figure out problems before the end of the production run. Also, the design-by-committee thing means even similar rolling stock (M7 and M7a for example) are different enough. With freight units, you either order your locomotive the UP way or you pay more. With passenger, you get ten guys in a room with a public mandate for 200 cupholders per train car and heavy duty air conditioning even though the units could be headed for Calgary... and they still screw it up.

Fan Railer wrote:FINALLY! news! can't wait for vids.

Here are the first 3 videos that I found of the 5000 series testing up in Plattsburgh, NY. If you listen close enough, you will hear the propulsion- especially towards the end of video 2.

Video 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96Mrm5Y0 ... re=related
Video 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Be-OtyYZ ... re=related
Video 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSzBVea7 ... re=related

The closest sounding propulsion I could find based on video 2 was the new Boston 0800 cars which were built by Siemens. I think this sounds similar:
Acceleration: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBCSmZvg ... re=related
Deceleration: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFLukHcfYlk

Now if Bombardier selected Siemens propulsion, it wouldn't be the first time as they have partnered on projects before. Usually Bombardier uses their MITRAC system on the majority of their projects since aquiring AdTranz. Then again, it could be Bombardier propulsion but the video quality wasn't that great to begin with. If it is the MITRAC propulsion, this is what the majority of trains using it sound like: (sounds identical to the Washington CAF 5000 series trains which also use MITRAC propulsion)

London- riding inside the new 2009 stock: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCEWAiG5JDw
London- 2009 stock acceleration: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIX8linD ... re=related
London- 2009 stock deceleration: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVpGDXAv ... re=related

Cool, thanks.

Tommyboy...those were some nice samples. Today, after exiting a northbound Green line train at Clinton on Lake Street a set of 5000s roared through the station non-stop while I was still in the mezzanine station just beneath the steel elevated....roared...I mean roared and loud too. At first I thought an ambulance or fire truck was approaching in the street below, then I briefly pictured a 747 crashing, then the train swept by overhead. I am impressed, but they are LOUD! Of course it was on the steel elevated and I was directly beneath it.

Dacvid Harrison

Chicagopcclcars- I agree with the Bombardier MITRAC propulsion being loud. I have had a chance to ride the CAF 5000 series trains with MITRAC propulsion and also the Alstom rebuilt 2000/3000 and new 6000 series trains with Alstom ONIX propulsion in Washington (all rebuilt or new trains from Alstom use identical motors.) Here's an interior ride comparison:

Bombardier MITRAC: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lpalny2 ... re=related
Alstom ONIX: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wh5putr9 ... re=related

My own personal experience- the MITRAC equipped trains are definitely louder but not the loudest on the interior in that system. However in DC, both the MITRAC and ONIX equipped trains both are known for providing a very smooth ride on the rails and are comparable to each other.

In Bombardier's defense, their MITRAC propulsion is quieter than the AdTranz motors which they replaced (the 1507/1508 series that are used in San Francisco [Rohr A-car rehab], New York City [R142A/S, R143], Atlanta [all trains across the CQ310,311,312 series], and Boston [Breda Type 8 LRV trains] built in the late 90's/early 2000's.)

What does this mean for the Chicago? The MITRAC propulsion provides a very smooth ride and think that it will be an improvement over what is used currently. The big question on the interior of the trains is how much sound deadening material will be used to limit the amount of motor noise being heard? That remains to be seen.

They're definitely loud. I saw some 5000's pass last week at Webster street on brown/red line. The only reason I looked twice was the inverter whine, which I could clearly hear from the street a block away.

Any updates on the revenue testing of 5000's? I live right by the line but haven't seen anything. That said, I don't sit outside waiting for 1 of 1000 trains to sound somewhat different. (even if I did, I'm right by the subway entrance, do they sound different on downhill coast?)

Beginning next week the CTA will use the first ten 5000-series cars on the red line as in the following story:

http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/2165 ... 16.article

How will they use those 10 cars since 8 car trains are the maximum length?

orangeline wrote:Beginning next week the CTA will use the first ten 5000-series cars on the red line as in the following story:

http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/2165 ... 16.article

How will they use those 10 cars since 8 car trains are the maximum length?

ah. only 3 more days. can't wait to see them in service...

orangeline wrote:
How will they use those 10 cars since 8 car trains are the maximum length?

Two cars will be spares kept at Howard or Skokie. It will be a standard eight car consist.

David Harrison