CTA historic fleet

In another thread, the topic of SEPTA and MTA saving historic rolling stock came up. I know CTA has some historic stuff laying around, but I don't know exactly what. I can recall

(2) 4000-series cars in brown
(2) 2000-series cars in early 1900's era paint
(1) fleet of 2400's [/sarcasm]

Is there anything else around? I hear MTA keeps 8-10 cars of each class around and I'm pretty sure CTA has never done anything on that scale; however IRM, ETER, and a few other local museums have plenty of CTA rolling stock.

Also, are there any plans for preservation of 2200's and 2400's which may be all/partially retired upon 5000-series full acceptance?

I've heard from a reliable source that the Illinois Railway museum plans to acquire a set of 2200s. I don't know about the 2400s though.

I'm an IRM volunteer who works on "L" cars every Saturday, so I can offer some insight.

On the CTA historic fleet:

4000s #4271-4272 are the only two "active" historic cars the CTA has right now. The Authority still owns South Side Rapid Transit #1, a wooden "L" car which was last used on the "L" in 1997. However, that car was placed on permanent loan to the Chicago History Museum (formerly known as the Chicago Historical Society) and is walled-up in tha museum, away from the "L."

The two 2000s sitting in the Skokie yard are not part of the historic fleet. Those were specially painted and modified (with table seating inside) for an anniversary in the early 1990s. I don't recall exactly, but I think it was for the 100th anniversary of the South Side Rapid Transit (1893-1993?). Those cars were later promised to a hypothetical Pullman museum at the old Pullman works, but that hasn't materialized and the cars have sat there, inoperable, for all this time. Maybe a year and a half ago the motors were pulled out when the CTA got in a crunch for motors for the 2200s. I can't offer any guesses as to what will happen to those cars.

On IRM getting 2200s and 2400s:

The new 5000s will replace the 2200s and 2400s in their entirety. IRM definitely has plans to get a pair of 2200s. Finding a good pair may take a while because some cars have bodies in better shape than others, and each one being retired will need to be looked at. The 2400s have been "less popular" all along but I suspect (and hope) we will get a pair, although this is only one volunteer's opinion. The historical lineage of the 2400s (built by Boeing in an attempt to keep a formerly defense-oriented workforce employed; and the only truly successful railcars - of many - built by an aeronautical firm in the 1970s) probably make them more historically significant "in the grand scheme of things" than the 2200s.

In any case, if anyone is interested in seeing 2200s and 2400s saved at IRM, keep your checkbook ready for when we have a solid acquisition plan. Transportation costs in moving them to the museum will not be insignificant and good, proper track and indoor storage space will likely be in excess of $200/ft (i.e., at least $10,000 per car to give it a spot in a barn).

And as always, new volunteers are always welcome to come out and help us work on the rapid transit cars we already have. (those of us already out there don't bite!) The better the shape our current fleet of cars is in, the more sense it makes to get new ones.

byte wrote:I'm an IRM volunteer who works on "L" cars every Saturday, so I can offer some insight.

On the CTA historic fleet:

the two 2000s sitting in the Skokie yard are not part of the historic fleet. Those were specially painted and modified (with table seating inside) for an anniversary in the early 1990s. I don't recall exactly, but I think it was for the 100th anniversary of the South Side Rapid Transit (1893-1993?). Those cars were later promised to a hypothetical Pullman museum at the old Pullman works, but that hasn't materialized and the cars have sat there, inoperable, for all this time. Maybe a year and a half ago the motors were pulled out when the CTA got in a crunch for motors for the 2200s. I can't offer any guesses as to what will happen to those cars.

It's a shame that none of these 2000s were preserved, they were similar in many ways to other equipment, but were also quirky and unique in their own way; I remember the A/C units (when they were working) would be really loud, and those powder blue seats added a... well, let's just say a somewhat "different" element. Compared to other long-lived CTA cars, these died much too soon...

byte wrote:The new 5000s will replace the 2200s and 2400s in their entirety. IRM definitely has plans to get a pair of 2200s. Finding a good pair may take a while because some cars have bodies in better shape than others, and each one being retired will need to be looked at. The 2400s have been "less popular" all along but I suspect (and hope) we will get a pair, although this is only one volunteer's opinion. The historical lineage of the 2400s (built by Boeing in an attempt to keep a formerly defense-oriented workforce employed; and the only truly successful railcars - of many - built by an aeronautical firm in the 1970s) probably make them more historically significant "in the grand scheme of things" than the 2200s.

Absolutely. And it would be fitting if the first two cars of the series, 2401-2402, could not only be preserved, but restored to their original appearance as delivered from the factory; I hope their current condition won't preclude that...

doepack wrote:
It's a shame that none of these 2000s were preserved, they were similar in many ways to other equipment, but were also quirky and unique in their own way; I remember the A/C units (when they were working) would be really loud, and those powder blue seats added a... well, let's just say a somewhat "different" element. Compared to other long-lived CTA cars, these died much too soon...

The 2153-2154 at IRM aren't really that far from running. One of the A/C compressors is seized and I believe one or two motors need to be replaced (same motors as on the 2200s). There are bigger issues that will take longer to fix, such as the fact that nearly all of the flooring and sub-flooring needs to be replaced, and the general exterior condition of the cars are, well, getting ratty (15+ years outside will do that). The cars have run out at the museum in the past, though (through a jumper cable while coupled to a set of 6000s - the latter were not supplying any power, just the trolley pole) before the motor problems came up. And for the record, the 2000s CAN have trolley poles mounted on top. It's not been done yet, but there's sufficient structural support in the roof for them. Remember those roofs had to support the weight of those air conditioners.

My guess is that the pair of 2000s at Skokie will go to some sort of museum, etc, but that's just a guess. Their interior reconfiguration will certainly make it a challenge to anyone who would like to backdate them.

doepack wrote:
Absolutely. And it would be fitting if the first two cars of the series, 2401-2402, could not only be preserved, but restored to their original appearance as delivered from the factory; I hope their current condition won't preclude that...

Like any 2200 IRM might want, the condition of stainless steel shells of the 2400s would probably be the overall deciding factor on which cars to get, if we get any. With a carbody in good shape, a low-numbered "work motor" 2400 would be an ideal pick, as they received heavier gauge electrical wiring later in their service life and are thus going to be a little more reliable in that respect. Backdating the cars is another story. The CTA has modified the 2400s, and even moreso the 2200s, significantly since they were built. Some might be content to put bi-centennial decals on the outside and leave the OPTO door controls inside, but IRM doesn't do it that way. If it proves to be impossible to accurately backdate any cars from either series, they will likely stay as we got them, or maybe backdated as far back as they appeared after their mid-life rehabs. I'll go on the record to say that no one should expect to see a 2200 being restored back to their as-built appearance anytime soon. Those cars have been changed quite a lot since they were built and bringing them back to that configuration would be a monumentally costly and labor-intensive project.

Of course, if it is not possible to mechanically restore the cars to their period, a cosmetic restoration could be enough.