Furloughs?

Tool what is the number of trainmen they want to let go? The rumors that are flying are from 50 to 100 or is going to be more. So does that mean they are going to cut 100 jobs from the crew book? I guess I should keep working 7 days until it stops.

I'd work all the overtime I could if I were you. The numbers I heard thrown around aren't quite that high.

I concur with UTU Man that furloughs in train service will probably not happen as they cannot cover the jobs already in the computer, er, board.

There was a time in 1982 when furloughs were considered, and UTU Man knows this well: The fall pick of 1981 eliminated the second brakeman from all jobs (some jobs were negoiated to be Conductor and Brakeman before this). In their place, sixty collectors jobs were created to "follow" regular jobs. In the winter of 1982, all these newly created jobs were eliminated, much to the elation of the head of crew management services who had much distain for transportation employees.

In effect, 125 Conductors and trainman were "subject to bid", and at the mercy of rouge crew dispacters who accecpted all forms of gratuities to move a trainman, "to the head of the line". Senior people (35 plus years and there were many) coudn't care less about us ("you're lucky you got a job, kid"). A letter was sent by the General Chairman stating that furloughs were imminent. Trainman were forty to go one day and called for an AM job, then forty to go the next day and called for the worst job on the railroad, Run 139 (11:57pm report, Brooklyn, and called at 8:50pm). To make matters worse, there would be six of you called, and you would be crew checked to see you were there.

Weekends? If you enjoyed Monday/Tuesday, or Tuesday/Wednesday, then bully for you! Most did not see any semblence of weekends off for years, unless "special favors"were bestowed upon you by "crew ". Complain, and defer to the comment about having a job (One crew manager whose son was a thirty year Conductor began with the remark, "well, you have to understand....."). Think you got "run around"? Put in a time slip and see what happened. If you lived on the east end, you saw a steady diet of west end assisgnments. Lived west end? A steady diet of east end jobs. Then there was the "One ring and you're dropped", so the forty year man could get out on his relief day( and he was the only one R/D).At leat two trainmen physically tore apart the crew offices in an act of psycological rage in what they had to endure with no outlet for either respect or understanding of what was happening to them by the carrier, or the UTU (others physically threatened people in crew and were met at the doors by LIRR Police).

Much of this came to an end with the introduction of the one week bid sheet, and the construction of WSSY. It is the duty of those who endured these trials (hired at the tail end of 1978 to 1983) to tell the next generation: Hang in there.It will get better, just not at the pace you hoped. It is a kinder and gentler Rail Road in many respects, but much of that was built on the backs of those who came before you.

2behind1 wrote:I concur with UTU Man that furloughs in train service will probably not happen as they cannot cover the jobs already in the computer, er, board.

There was a time in 1982 when furloughs were considered, and UTU Man knows this well: The fall pick of 1981 eliminated the second brakeman from all jobs (some jobs were negoiated to be Conductor and Brakeman before this). In their place, sixty collectors jobs were created to "follow" regular jobs. In the winter of 1982, all these newly created jobs were eliminated, much to the elation of the head of crew management services who had much distain for transportation employees.

In effect, 125 Conductors and trainman were "subject to bid", and at the mercy of rouge crew dispacters who accecpted all forms of gratuities to move a trainman, "to the head of the line". Senior people (35 plus years and there were many) coudn't care less about us ("you're lucky you got a job, kid"). A letter was sent by the General Chairman stating that furloughs were imminent. Trainman were forty to go one day and called for an AM job, then forty to go the next day and called for the worst job on the railroad, Run 139 (11:57pm report, Brooklyn, and called at 8:50pm). To make matters worse, there would be six of you called, and you would be crew checked to see you were there.

Weekends? If you enjoyed Monday/Tuesday, or Tuesday/Wednesday, then bully for you! Most did not see any semblence of weekends off for years, unless "special favors"were bestowed upon you by "crew ". Complain, and defer to the comment about having a job (One crew manager whose son was a thirty year Conductor began with the remark, "well, you have to understand....."). Think you got "run around"? Put in a time slip and see what happened. If you lived on the east end, you saw a steady diet of west end assisgnments. Lived west end? A steady diet of east end jobs. Then there was the "One ring and you're dropped", so the forty year man could get out on his relief day( and he was the only one R/D).At leat two trainmen physically tore apart the crew offices in an act of psycological rage in what they had to endure with no outlet for either respect or understanding of what was happening to them by the carrier, or the UTU (others physically threatened people in crew and were met at the doors by LIRR Police).

Much of this came to an end with the introduction of the one week bid sheet, and the construction of WSSY. It is the duty of those who endured these trials (hired at the tail end of 1978 to 1983) to tell the next generation: Hang in there.It will get better, just not at the pace you hoped. It is a kinder and gentler Rail Road in many respects, but much of that was built on the backs of those who came before you.

Tell me about it. I went thru it. November 24 1978

Metro-North as well as all the constituent agencies of the MTA are subject to the same budget pressures as the LIRR. Demographics are different on MN due to the age of workforce and eligibility of workers capable of retiring.

After starting the thread, I found some new info. As LI Tool stated, its quite possible in the spring. The numbers are 50 conductors, 50 engineers, 50 coach cleaners. They are still paying overtime and always will. This is the way the system is set up. I heard about a smart move for an engineer in training. He's opted to go back to his previous craft, retain his seniority, without gambling whether he'll be out of work.

A smarter move for him would be to complete the engineers' training program, get on the engineers' roster while continuing to retain seniority in his original craft by paying dues to that union. If laid off, he could bump a position in his old craft and revert to his old job by displacing a junior man. As he has already been promoted to engineer and has a position on the engineers' roster he could revert back ahead of any new hires down the road.

While unions may encourage you to "give up your seniority" by not paying dues in a previous position, your choice to retain that seniority is protected by law. You just have to pony up the $60 per month for that job security.

LongIslandTool wrote:A smarter move for him would be to complete the engineers' training program, get on the engineers' roster while continuing to retain seniority in his original craft by paying dues to that union. If laid off, he could bump a position in his old craft and revert to his old job by displacing a junior man. As he has already been promoted to engineer and has a position on the engineers' roster he could revert back ahead of any new hires down the road.

While unions may encourage you to "give up your seniority" by not paying dues in a previous position, your choice to retain that seniority is protected by law. You just have to pony up the $60 per month for that job security.

yes, but he was told by the BLE that if he participated in the Graduation ceremony that he would not be allowed back to his former craft even though he is current on his dues. this may or may not be accurate (whether or not he can go back) but this is what he was told and that he had 2 days to decide. with a family to feed its not a decision you can take lightly and say "well, they are wrong so i will see what really happens".

Sorry to hear the your friend was misled by the BLE Chairman. I've heard this has been going on and it is one of the reasons the Carrier simply cannot work with this organization's General Chairman.

Now would be the time for him to call the International Organization and consult with a labor attorney. He should have recourse if he was misrepresented by his labor representative. He should take action now, get some good answers and pay for some real advice rather than wait for the hammer to fall before doing so.

With a family to feed, your friend must make every effort to protect his position and not to walk out of a job based on some hearsay.

it seems to be one of those things they try and say "well, its always been this way, so tough". my question is, if you were to go straight to the carrier (assuming you just got furloughed as an engineer but are still current on your UTU dues) and say, 'ok, i was furloughed but now want to excercise my seniority and put a trim in on the trainmens roster' could the union do anything to stop you? as far as the carrier is concerned you have the right to go back, this seems to be a union dispute. would the carrier put you back into your old craft and let the unions settle the dispute?

There is no telling what some of the idiots in the employ of the Carrier would do today, but you ask a good question and Tool knows the correct answer because Tool and Labor Relations researched precisely this situation several decades ago.

The Roster is published and maintained by the Company, not by the Union. Once your name is printed (or omitted) on this year's roster both you and the Union, and the Carrier have a certain time to appeal that roster. Usually it's 30 or 60 days.

After that time period lapses, the roster is the definitive instrument that determines your rights to a position filled by its members.

So yes, if you were an engineer and you retained seniority on the TCU roster as a clerk, and your engineer's position were abolished, you would either go to the TCU crew dispatcher to trim a junior employee's job or simply report to the assignment and physically displace the junior incumbent from your desired position.

As you suggest, the Union has nothing to say about this. The Crew Book or Bulletin is a publication of the Carrier, as is the Roster. The assignment of jobs is the Carrier's responsibility as provided for by its crew book and roster.

If a union requested the Railroad remove the name of a dues-paying member from its roster without the requisite hearings provided by its International by-laws and the provisions of the Railway Labor Act, it would be subject to a misrepresentation lawsuit by the member.

Yea I heard about this Engineer Trainee's decision too and from what my friend told me, he was told by the UTU that he could not go back to being a trainman after he graduated.... in my opinion that is such BS but I would not have taken the chance either...Do u think its still late for him to go back as an engineer since its been about 10 days since the new class graduated???

I think he would only get back if ordered by a court. He should seek legal council now. If he were given incorrect information by his union and that caused him monetary damages and he could prove that, he would have a case.

Frankly, I feel he was negligent by making such a rash decision based on one person's verbal advice.

Perhaps a lesson should be learned here. Before taking actions that can hurt your future or paycheck based on someone's "advice" or threat, get the information in writing, get the source of the information and check out the source.

Come on guys, this is your livelihood you are protecting. Nobody's watching our for you but you!

Sometimes it's worth spending a few dollars for a legal opinion.

It's not an option to continue dues like it was years ago. Thats old school. It is negotiated by union and company.You can continue full dues for three months. After 3 months in engine service your choice is to resign from a previous craft or continue. Been there done that. Paying full dues will not guarantees a place in your previous craft after 3 months. Previous to this rule, one could pay just one dollar per month for a year to keep a place in a roster. In train service seniority moves much faster than in engine service with the ability to earn much more income. I know this first hand.

You have been lied to. Retaining a position in any labor organization is governed by law. These rights cannot be abrogated by the Carrier and Organization's collusion.

We won't rehash the earning thread on train vs. engine service, but you are incorrect there also. Did the UTU tell you that one too?