Fatal Beating at 13th and Market Subway Concourse

Jersey_Mike wrote:

It's a shame that neither the victim nor the spectators had permits to carry. No shots needed to be fired. Just the sight of a firearm would have been a great deterrent to back off.

It's a shame that PA doesn't have Stand Your Ground legislation as in Florida or Texas so that instead of sending these kids through the ineffective justice system they could have been sent straight to the morgue.

If life were like the movies Bernhard Goetz would move to Philly for a sequel.

In practice juries never convict for self defense regardless of whether you give ground or not. When the adrenaline is racing because you are being attacked, you won't be thinking "what are my legal options here?". In fact, you probably wont be thinking at all...just acting on intinct.

How is this discussion related to SEPTA, other than it took place on or near SEPTA property? I think we're getting away from the railroad discussion and more into a discussion of law that has little to do with SEPTA.

-otto-

Given all the recent incidents on the BSS I think that Subway violence is now par for the course. As much as I would hate to admit it, it feels that the SEPTA system is becoming downright dangerous. I've been temporarily out of the Philadelphia media market for a number of years now and when I can catch the old Action News its shocking the way crime has been getting out of control recently.

I used to feel perfectly safe walking above ground down Market between 11th and 8th at night with luggage and from what I have been reading it seems that I might be in for an unpleasant surprise if I tried it now. Combined with PATCO's terrible/random off-peak headways I now look to try to connect my Amtrak trains with NJT.

It is entirely possible that if that starbucks manager had a can of pepper spray and maybe some time in a gym would have made this story a bit different.

Even though Lynne Abraham has tried her best, self defense is still legal in Phila, might be something for people to consider instead of simply acting like food for these creeps.

On a Septa Note, odds are there were cameras covering enough of the platform and exit for them to get id's. There are quite a few cameras on the system and their quality is pretty good. I was very suprised the one time I was in the control center how good you can make out faces and even newspaper headlines on that monitors.

Sounds like it was a random act of violence.

http://www.myfoxphilly.com/myfox/pages/ ... geId=3.2.1

Deputy Police Commissioner Richard Ross Jr. says the investigation so far indicates Conroy was targeted at random

"Kids randomly assaulting a person who's minding their own business ... is shocking and disturbing," Ross said.

A top police official calls a SEPTA commuter's death "horrible" and confirms Philadelphia's district attorney hasn't moved forward on charges against a teen.

Deputy Police Commissioner Richard Ross Jr. told reporters that Sean Patrick Conroy's death in a confrontation with four teens on Wednesday was "a horrible tragedy" and the conduct of the teens involved in the incident was "reprehensible."

Ross said he believed Conroy was apparently picked out by the teens randomly.

"The individual was targeted for no reason at all," Ross said. "We believe it was just a random act."

Ross also did not comment on reports that witnesses to the attack didn't intervene.

Police want to know why Conroy was attacked at 13th and Market, considered as one of the safest commuter areas in the city.

I don't see how killing teenagers would be any better than fixing what is at the root of the problem (which is too much to get into here) or just having more security personel around. But yes, gun violence is not a problem in this city, so more people should be carrying weapons at all times.

Here's a follow up:

http://tinyurl.com/4z7hfs

m&m wrote:Here's a follow up:

http://tinyurl.com/4z7hfs

That article is disgusting to say the least, especially the part about families making "fat jokes" and the like.

Just shows you where their priorities are.

16 year-olds aren't mentally developed enough to know right from wrong? WTF! not knowing and not caring are two different matters. Since these sorry excuses for human beings are juveniles, we can all look forward to our justice system needing to deal with them again for whatever serious crimes they commit after the slap on the wrist they get for this murder.

kevikens wrote:As I understand it from this morning's newspaper accounts there were plenty of people on the platform at the time who vacated the area when the attack took place. It's a shame that neither the victim nor the spectators had permits to carry. No shots needed to be fired. Just the sight of a firearm would have been a great deterrent to back off.

Does SEPTA have a policy on passengers carrying?