Amtrak and its NYC station

When MSG gets replaced, do a new Penn station, and build a new MSG over it. Seriously, the location is perfect for it. It's only the foamers who really care that Penn is under a sports arena. Most everyone else finds the ability to go see a game or event in NYC without having to worry about parking, subway fare, or standing outside in bad weather to be a nice advantage of the existing MSG.

In any case, we're often seeing railfan's calls for making sports complexes more transit accessable. MSG is by far the most transit accessable arena in the US - and now the railfans are claiming this is a bad thing, because the station isn't pretty enough?

A word of caution: Before jumping on the "Derail the Bullet Train" bandwagon, I advise a careful look at the loosey-goosey figures and reckless demagoguery ("high-speed tourist train") that's being served up here

All well and good, Mr. Nas, if that is where your public event (concert??) is venued.

When I, for one think of venues for public events in NYC, it is usually at 7th Ave and 57th or Bway and 65th.

I have no problem with combining a sports arena with a train station, but I don't consider myself a "foamer". The original Penn is gone, and won't ever come back, so you might as well have an efficient use of the airspace.

IF a new arena were built, it would be interesting to see how our (i.e. society's) expectations for the future would compare to the expectations of the early 60's when the current arena was constructed. Would we do a better job in predicting future demographics?

Also, from a "civic pride" standpoint, certain elements could be incorporated that would be a recognition of the past. It could have a concourse that copied the footprint and height of the original, for instance, or a colonnade along the Seventh Avenue side.

However, once projects like the Farley Building get started, they are pretty hard to stop.

Well i actually like the layout of Penn Station for some reason..

Instead of Amtrak relocated, why not just move MSG over to the Farely building...

I say create a tunnel so that commuters who want 2 attend the events will be able 2 remain under ground so they don't have to deal with congestion or weather related issues.

Here is what i suggest in place of it, i know some of u will not like this, but hey i say relocate Greyhound to the old MSG building making Penn station the ultimate transportation center making everyone happy.

I like buses & trains so i decided 2 combine the 2... :D

It would not be practical to move Greyhound away from all of the other
connecting bus services in New York, Port Authority Bus Terminal is a
huge facility with a direct link to the Lincoln Tunnel for many of the
platforms and gates.
It makes much more sense to have combined facilities in smaller and less
busy terminals but still places where combined facilities would serve both
Amtrak and the bus lines better than they are now served.
New York is a huge transportation area whether its buses, planes or trains.
Penn. Station and the Port Authority Bus Terminal are one stop from each
other via the 8th Avenue Subway. The only thing I can think of that would
be better would be a underground moving sidewalk and there are likely a
lot of reasons why it would be difficult if not nearly impossible to build
such a thing in this day and age.
The Farley Building should remain just what it is, a post office period....
Penn Station is a better facility today than it was in the early 1960's when
the Pennsylvania Railroad made the decision to unload it.
I remember the old station very well, I used and worked out of both
stations.
The present station might not be "grand" in the sense of the word but it is
highly functional and not bad for the user either. You can sit in a decent,
well lighted and reasonably comfortable area while waiting for your train
to be called and when it is called, you will be able to hear and understand
the announcement. You do not roast in the summer or freeze in the
winter either.
The old Penn Station could have been saved if the railroad had been
relieved of the tax burden, the maintenance costs and had the authorities
been willing at the time to take over the passenger train deficits,
especially from the commuter services. They were not so the railroad did
what they had to do.
Fortunately, the other things that were built when the station was, such as
tunnels, platforms, signals, trackage and yards are all still in place, have
been improved on through the years and are still doing the job that they
were built to do. This is much more important than just a building.
Noel Weaver

A word of caution: Before jumping on the "Derail the Bullet Train" bandwagon, I advise a careful look at the loosey-goosey figures and reckless demagoguery ("high-speed tourist train") that's being served up here

I urge everyone to read the website mentioned in Mr. Fels' post. It's pretty funny. It states that it would cost $146 million to resurface the interstate with gold. I love it...especially since the Florida Dept. of Transportation estimates that it would cost about $71 million to do it with conventional asphalt. http://www.dot.state.fl.us/planning/pol ... nsCost.pdf

Now to keep this on topic...I would love to see a grand station in place of Penn station, but I would be almost as happy (but still very, very, happy) to see a station that's less cramped, has better access to platforms, and has less of a cattle-car/dungeon feel to it. I

Sorry Matt, I skipped over your link to the websight for "Derail the Bullet
Train".
I have mixed feelings about this, I voted against it when it was proposed
a couple of years ago.
I still think it is a huge expense to bear for the results when we could be
doing something similar to what California has done. The Florida East
Coast from Miami to Jacksonville was a double track route at one time
until the unfortunate events of a few years back eliminated the need for
two tracks. The line could be double tracked again and probably even
three tracks for the most part with out too much difficulty and at a lot less
cost than a bullet train scheme.
Ditto for the CSX former ACL and SAL trackage through the central part of
our state and the west coast as well as the panhandle.
Governor Bush is very anti rail and as long as he is in power and feels that
way, I would probably not support his efforts to derail.
In my opinion, a better solution than the Bullet Train would be to do what
California has done, buy dedicated equipment and improve the lines to
handle increased train movements.
Let Amtrak handle the business using existing routes and good diesel
electric locomotives and coaches. They could run 100 to 125 MPH with
an improved signal system and that would be fast enough.
Florida, PROGRESS IS PASSING US BY.
Noel Weaver