Milford CT Question

ElectricTraction wrote: ↑Fri Nov 03, 2023 3:07 pm It's just not needed. The 90 parking spots in Milford that would be lost to adding the 4th track back are much more valuable than a track that isn't needed. Adding another crossover east of Milford station to increase capacity would be a good idea.

Actually, I count < 25 spots...
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.2226889 ... ?entry=ttu

...about 20 general purpose spots and about 3 handicapped spots. Or, you could possibly retain all those spots (and just lose about 4 parallel parking spots, by just pulling the platform side spots back the width of the platform. And what is the current status of Milford's parking lot these days? I'm guessing it hasn't 100% fully recovered from COVID. And was it at full capacity, pre-COVID, post-West Haven? An Orange station may further deflect some cars from Milford (or just free up the waiting list spaces), but at the cost of yet another mainline station, further slowing down the NHL.

Come to think of it, what was the setup before the 4th track was removed? Was the high level platform pushed back right up against the station like all the others in 4-track territory? High levels went in during the 70s with delivery of the M-2s, and 4 tracks still existed through Milford back then.

Regardless, I agree. Right now the 4th track isn't needed through Milford.

fredmcain wrote: ↑Mon Nov 06, 2023 8:01 amYes, but that’s only an opinion and an opinion that I respect as far as that goes. However, “robelybasis” stated that the restoration of track #3 is already in the works although that’s not gonna happen right away.

Color me very skeptical, as those 90 parking spots are pretty valuable. I suppose they can make that industrial running track in Milford a real track that can be used by passengers during the day and then freight at night with the right crossovers, so that's less of an issue.

A westbound Amtrak express arrives in New Haven a few minutes late. So, the dispatcher goes ahead and lets the Metro-North local go ahead of Amtrak. Meanwhile, an eastbound Amtrack train is approaching Devon on track #2 overtaking and eastbound M-N train on track #4.

This seems like a really specific issue. They could use another crossover 1-2 WB just east of the 3-1 WB crossover where the 3 track turns into an industrial running lead, which would allow a WB Amtrak to be lined 1-2 WB while an MN local that stopped at West Haven (and eventually Orange) is lined 3-1 at the same time. In theory they could put 2mi of the 3 track back in between Milford and Devon, but I don't see much value in it. The big value for capacity is Devon Transfer and Barnum Station, with Amtrak getting out of Bridgeport, and some locals terminating at Devon Transfer or heading to NHV.

That's really just crappy dispatching. Let the MN go ahead on 3, throw it in the hole when you get to the 3-track section. Orange will be just east of the 3-track section, so they can hold the MN at Orange for the Amtrak to blow by, and then put it right behind.

In spite of the fact that all tracks now have bidirectional signaling restoring track three would increase flexibility.
So, the bottom line is, is it really worth the money to restore track #3 in order to achieve that little bit of flexibility? I guess it is but then again it might not be. It just all depends on your point of view AND on how much rail traffic grows in the coming years.

For one, the real bottleneck is Devon/Bridgeport much more so than the Milford 3-track section. Going down the line, STM is a bit of a bottleneck, and SHELL Interlocking is going to see a HUGE increase in traffic with PSA.

SHELL Interlocking is getting upgraded, so for capacity, I'd invest in some minor tweaks to STM, Barnum Station in Bridgeport, Devon Transfer, Orange Station, and I'd standardize platform length at 12 cars all the way from GCT to NHV.

Then, the other issue at hand is the parking. Milford is already out of parking. Subtracting 90 spots for a track that might eliminate a couple of minutes of delay once in a while is not a good trade-off. Adding the Orange station and a kiss-and-ride/bike/pedestrian/bus accessible Devon Transfer would take pressure off of Milford and increase overall capacity of the line, while adding the 3 track in Milford would not.

Certainly, if there were a renaissance of freight traffic on the Shore Line, restoring track #3 would be absolutely necessary but, then again, that might never happen. It would be nice if it could happen, though, there are far too many trucks on the road.

Even if the majority of the rail-accessible businesses along this stretch came back as rail-served customers, a few crossovers to run passenger traffic on 2 tracks and jump onto 3 to get to the West Haven and Orange Stations between 2200 and 0500 or thereabouts would be all that's needed to give CSX more time and drill track to serve their local customers. Realistically, there aren't going to be very many beyond the ones that are already there.

If you're talking about through freight from a Cross-Harbor rail tunnel between Oak Island, and Cedar Hill, the studies show two daily trains, one in each direction, which would have virtually zero effect on capacity or need for an additional track, as they would run overnight or midday when passenger traffic is low, and probably have a slightly better ability to get out of their own way than CHFP when it's loaded with 12,000 tons of stone. Even if you added COFC Intermodal to the mix, you're talking a few trains each day in each direction that would run during off-peak hours.

shadyjay wrote: ↑Mon Nov 06, 2023 8:02 pmActually, I count < 25 spots...
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.2226889 ... ?entry=ttu

I see what you're looking at, you're just pushing the 343' high level platform back into the parking lot, taking out what I counted as 26 spots. The problem is, that's a sub-standard platform, and a new platform would be 1,020' long, and would wipe out another 59 spots west of High Street, for a total of 85 spots. I'm not sure what happened to the other 5, maybe I was assuming space for stairs or a ramp or something on the end.

With the current platform built over the roadbed of the 3 track, the WB platform could be rebuilt/extended to the full 1020' entirely on the roadbed without impacting parking. The EB platform is in much better shape space wise, it only needs another 167', and there is plenty of space for it to just extend west from it's current footprint.

An Orange station may further deflect some cars from Milford (or just free up the waiting list spaces), but at the cost of yet another mainline station, further slowing down the NHL.

The Orange station makes sense, even with slowing down the NHL. Marsh Hill Road is a logical N-S feeder to the NHL from Orange. I think everything should be done to increase capacity on the NHL by providing more parking, more access, and the ability to run full 12-car trains if needed.

Barnum Station would add capacity and more Amtrak service through Bridgeport, Devon Transfer would decouple the Waterbury Branch from the NHL while still allowing select trains to run to SoNo/STM or New Haven.

Honestly, mixed feelings on an Orange station. Rides out to New Haven are already 2 hours long even on semi-express trains, I don't want yet another stop on the longest straightaway east of Stamford.

Regardless of whether some people on this thread are either or opposed to re-establishing track 3 (not sure why they're opposed but it seems they are) or in favor thereof, the opinions expressed (and they are only opinions) could well be irrelevant.

The huge package that Joe Biden is pushing, which borders on obscene, calls for extensive capacity improvements north and east of NYC. So, my prediction is they will very likely restore track 3. However, I won't go out on a limb and predict when. That's anybody's guess, really. The way a lot of these projects go, it could well be 20 years or more.

As a case in point, reference the East Side Access or the Second Avenue subway.

Traingeek3629 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2023 7:06 pmHonestly, mixed feelings on an Orange station. Rides out to New Haven are already 2 hours long even on semi-express trains, I don't want yet another stop on the longest straightaway east of Stamford.

MN has speed and schedule problems that won't be made or broken by the Orange station. They keep adding more slop and padding to the schedule because they can't/won't keep a tight schedule, and there are speed restrictions that need to be dealt with.

fredmcain wrote: ↑Mon Nov 27, 2023 1:43 pmRegardless of whether some people on this thread are either or opposed to re-establishing track 3 (not sure why they're opposed but it seems they are)

90 parking spots.

The huge package that Joe Biden is pushing, which borders on obscene, calls for extensive capacity improvements north and east of NYC. So, my prediction is they will very likely restore track 3. However, I won't go out on a limb and predict when. That's anybody's guess, really. The way a lot of these projects go, it could well be 20 years or more.

There is still only a drop in the bucket of what is needed for rail transportation, but no amount of funding changes the fundamental fact that the Milford 3-track section just isn't the bottleneck. Bridgeport is the bottleneck right now, and you need Barnum Station and/or Devon Transfer in order to rectify that.

With both of those, capacity would be significantly increased, and with a few additional crossovers, you'd still need a HUGE increase in traffic through Milford to make that a bottleneck. What is that traffic, and where is it going to come from? Extend a few more MN trains to NHV from Bridgeport. Send a few Waterbury trains to NHV via Devon Transfer. Electrify the Springfield Line, fix I-84 and get the whole thing double-tracked end to end so you can add a dozen more Amtrak trains from NYP to SPG. It's all a drop in the bucket, and still doesn't make Milford the limiting factor in... anything.