Chautauqua Traction Carbarn Location?

Where was the CT carbarn? I assume Jamestown. Thanks.

Yes, overall. I looked through my notes to give a complete answer. One barn used is still in existence. The others are long gone.

While all of Broadhead's trolley lines were interconnected, the CTC had its terminus as the Sherman house in downtown Jamestown. This location (north of Brooklyn Square, and on the other side of the river from the only non-Broadhead trolley line neatby, the Warren and Jamestown) had no place for a carbarn.

The building that is still around today is on Third Street: you can easily see the front where there were multiple doors for multiple cars to be serviced. While it's definitely a car barn for the Street Railway, as the CTC entered Jamestown on the JSRY line, the CTC unquestionably had access to the JSRY facilities. I'm seeing in a 1925 report when the CTC was considering closing that the official start of the CTC trackage was Chautauqua Avenue in Lakewood. It was JSRY until there.

The CTC cars were also frequent visitors to the boatlanding. They first arrived via the Pennsylvania Railroad at Mayville, and then came down the JW on the other side of the lake. I would assume that the Erie and the Broadhead family were still not playing nice-nice so that's the reason for the routing, but they also came from Brill in Philadelphia, so it simply may have been more direct via Pennsy. In any case, on your site you've got the one station in the boatlanding that still exists as built in 1942. That would have been after the CTC closed, but there were quite a few facilities at the boatlanding, so I would assume they spent time at the barn there at some point. The diesel house that the JW used up until the end became the Erie Railroad's engine house until the new one was built near the station some time later.

Finally, there was another building that the Broadheads used, but it was long gone when the line closed. The Third Street barn, still up today, is made of brick and appears pretty sturdy. It's also built into the hillside, so one would assume it had some good engineering done. I repeatedly saw references to a Washington Street carbarn when seeing obits and injury reports for trainmen. It also seemed like the Washington Street barn had sleeping quarters, like you'd find at a firehouse. I would assume that there were guys on duty all the time, so perhaps this was the case? There is no doubt that there was a wooden carbarn on Washington Street, which would not have been at the boatlanding, and that CTC cars and personnel used it.

So: Third Street barn, still there
Boatlanding (there was a turntable in there for a long time, too!)
Washington Street Carbarn

Where on Third?

So, on Google Maps, this is the location of the building:


This is the street view of that same building:


Finally, a rough sketch of how the lines fit together:


I should have added to that image that the red line with arrows was the JSR access/row to Jamestown proper.

Before I forgot, I have more information and pictures.

I need to investigate a bit further, but it seems the 3rd street carbarn was built in 1901...but I have two very different sets of pics, and need to figure out what the heck is going on. You'll see below. In any case, I see now that the Washington Street barn was built in 1925...so it's much younger than the 3rd street barn, but it's long gone.

I should also mention that I know where the Washington Street barn was supposed to be, in the area of 7th and 8th street...but the one book says between 2nd and third which is smack in downtown, and it would be what was a parking lot for many years. I cannot believe that in a bustling downtown, in the Roaring Twenties, that anyone would build a trolley carbarn downtown, only a couple of blocks away from an existing building that never did get knocked down. So, I'll play with that in the coming weeks as time permits.

So, to begin, using the modern street-level picture I posted earlier today, this is a photo from my collection with the doors open, and you should be able to easily see the existing building back then:


Where things get funny is the next pic. Supposed to be the same building, and here's what I think: I believe that this is the view from the Boatlanding side as the building is built in 1901. The smoke stack in the background fits, though, and so it's possible that we're looking at the same 3rd-street-side view, but there are so many structural differences, until I can look again, I really think that this is a view at the Boatlanding side of the same building. It certainly does not look like the same building as the above picture obviously does. This picture is from the Fenton's pamphlet-ish mini book, page 2. This pic is before the building is finished in 1901:


More to come.

I’m just a summer resident at Chautauqua, and can’t intelligently comment on what’s in Jamestown, but there is a former CTC carbarn opposite the ex-PRR station in Mayville, now occupied by Evergreen Outfitters. As you doubtless already know, CTC stations still survive at Ashville, Cheneys Point (now a residence), Chautauqua Institution (the Institution welcome center) and Lighthouse Point (now a grocery store). Also, a small wood waiting station, purportedly the relocated Green’s Park station, stands on Rt. 394 a short distance east of the Rt. 43 intersection.

Herb Harwood

Forgot to mention the surviving CT station/substation at Stow. But you probably knew that.

I have family that is in the Mayville area during the summer. I have ridden my bike past the building several times. I have also noticed the building because of its brick structure. I never knew it was a carbarn. The next time I'm down there, my view point will definitely be different. haha

Thanks for the info. Ya never know who might benefit from it.

While my knowledge of Jamestown Street Ry. history of close to zero, I was fascinated by the JSR carbarn description and particularly the vexing mystery of that second historic carbarn photo. I did a little internet research and, for what it’s worth, came up with these findings:

First off, clearly the two historic building photos show different structures.. Architecturally the presently surviving carbarn follows an early 20th century utilitarian/industrial style used into the 1920s. With its ornamental brickwork and round 3-story turret, the building in the second photo would date to the 1890s. Another clue: There is a missing word in the company name on the facade, which is obscured by the foreground structure. This turns out to be “Electric!l so the full name would read “Jamestown Electric Street Railway,” a name the company apparently used for a while following electrification in 1891.

Checking the 3rd St. site on an 1896 Sanborn fire insurance map (available online from the Library of Congress), we find a precise diagram of the building in the photo. So the bottom line seems to be this this was a predecessor of the present structure, most likely dating to the 1891 electrification. That in turn may raise a question about the 1901 date of the later carbarn, since at most it would be only 10 tears younger than its predecessor. Maybe so, but why so soon? A fire? Lack of capacity? Or wrong date? I’ll have to leave it to the experts.

A couple of additional observations:

For anyone interested in looking up the LOC’s 1896 Sanborn map showing the 3rd St. carbarn site, it’s on map #18 in the series. This map also shows some long-gone earlier JSR structures and the Celerlon Park menagerie winter quarters. (Map #19 shows the JSR powerhouse by the Erie tracks.) Note on the map that the carbarn was basically a wood structure (yellow) with brick facade (red). Also, the structure shown in the foreground of the photo (the left side) was actually a separate building. The photo would indicate it was under construction at the time, as evidenced by the newer brickwork and debris.. The hose house was also separate.

A minor item of interest: in the historic photo of the later building, the car lurking in the shadow at the left looks to me like a JWNW car. If so, I wonder whether that was a regular thing at this time or something special. Again, one for the experts.