New PATH cars on order

I had no idea PATH had ordered any new cars. And I'm surprised they would be expanding from eight to nine cars on the WTC line given that ridership is generally down since the COVID era began. Does anyone know the numbering of the new cars? And whether any of them are in revenue service yet?

I wonder if the longer trains are the reason PATH seems to have changed from having the conductor riding in the front two cars and operating the doors from there. They appear to have now adopted the NYC Subway practice of stationing the conductor in the middle of the train. Maybe for better visibility of the whole train when closing the doors. If that's the new PATH operating mode, then it would seem a lot of money and valuable space was wasted having the those traditional PATH door control stations at the rear of the cab cars.

Head-end View wrote: ↑Sat Apr 15, 2023 7:31 pm I had no idea PATH had ordered any new cars. And I'm surprised they would be expanding from eight to nine cars on the WTC line given that ridership is generally down since the COVID era began. Does anyone know the numbering of the new cars? And whether any of them are in revenue service yet?

(1) I believe that the contracts were executed in mid-2019 prior to COVID issues in the US, and the binding contracts may not have been easily terminated, and (2) one continuing concern of many public transit patrons is exposure to COVID and with lower ridership the expansion to new 9 car trains will allow each car to be less crowded than keeping existing consist size, so could help to persuade riders to return to utilizing PATH.

Aren't these just modified MTA subway cars?

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eolesen wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 11:12 am Aren't these just modified MTA subway cars?

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Not at all.

There are many differences including the length of the cars - PA-5 cars are about 49' (per Kawasaki website), a MTA R62 car is 51' 1/2', the placement of the trucks under the cars is different as well, the sides of the PA cars slope inward as it reaches the roof line, on MTA cars the sides remain straight.

There are other differences which I'll leave for others to mention.

Head-end View wrote: ↑Sat Apr 15, 2023 7:31 pm If that's the new PATH operating mode, then it would seem a lot of money and valuable space was wasted having the those traditional PATH door control stations at the rear of the cab cars.

The conductor position can used for bikes and also for ADA. When the PA1/PA2/PA3 came back from MK overhaul
in the late 80s, the conductor position was designed to allow a wheelchair if needed.

Allan wrote:

eolesen wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 11:12 am Aren't these just modified MTA subway cars?

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Not at all.

There are many differences including the length of the cars - PA-5 cars are about 49' (per Kawasaki website), a MTA R62 car is 51' 1/2', the placement of the trucks under the cars is different as well, the sides of the PA cars slope inward as it reaches the roof line, on MTA cars the sides remain straight.

There are other differences which I'll leave for others to mention.

Allan wrote:

eolesen wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 11:12 am Aren't these just modified MTA subway cars?

Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk

Not at all.

There are many differences including the length of the cars - PA-5 cars are about 49' (per Kawasaki website), a MTA R62 car is 51' 1/2', the placement of the trucks under the cars is different as well, the sides of the PA cars slope inward as it reaches the roof line, on MTA cars the sides remain straight.

There are other differences which I'll leave for others to mention.

Do the differences preclude them running on the subway lines? Profile and length sound compatible, width does not

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The difference in the placement of the trucks under the cars would prevent the use of the cars on the others systems.

I don't recall the exact specs but the MTA cars have the trucks mounted close to the ends of each car while the PA cars have the trucks recessed a bit .

The sharp curves in the PATH tunnels (especially the ones just south of Christopher St) require the type of clearance the recessed truck placement that the PA cars have. The MTA cars (specifically the IRT cars) would have problems.

Martin Baumann wrote: ↑Tue Aug 06, 2019 4:31 am

Martin Baumann wrote: ↑Mon Sep 10, 2018 2:07 pm PATH currently have an additional 72 PA-5 on order. How many A cars and how many B cars?

According to

https://www.nyctransitforums.com/topic/ ... /#comments

the new cars will all be C cars (no cab). I incorrectly called them B cars in the original post. I assume they will be 5220 to 5291 when built

I think the new cars are numbered in the 5300 's. Today I saw cars 5300 and 5309.

Head-end View wrote: ↑Sat Apr 15, 2023 7:31 pm I wonder if the longer trains are the reason PATH seems to have changed from having the conductor riding in the front two cars and operating the doors from there. They appear to have now adopted the NYC Subway practice of stationing the conductor in the middle of the train. Maybe for better visibility of the whole train when closing the doors. If that's the new PATH operating mode, then it would seem a lot of money and valuable space was wasted having the those traditional PATH door control stations at the rear of the cab cars.

The conductors are now riding in actual cabs now because the same skells who insist on assaulting NYCTA crew members are assaulting PATH crews.

Yeah, I wouldn't doubt it given the frigged up world we're living in today. Surprisingly though, I rode the WTC-Newark line last week and on the eastbound train the conductor was back to riding the old positions in the first and second cars. Might have been because we picked up and dropped off several PATH employees at different crew platforms along the way so I guess the conductor needed to be up front to key the doors open and closed for that purpose.

In all the years I had been riding PATH I have always wondered why the conductor door controls are not located in the cab.

BTW - on the NYC Subway the only cars that had the door controls mounted inside the car itself were the BRT/BMT A/B Standards where the door controls were located in the middle of the car (on both sides). It must of been really hectic for a conductor to stand there and try to move to the other side of the car during a busy rush hour. The next series of car, the D-Type, had the door controls on the outside between the cars

Of particular note: the door controls in the D-Types in the NY Transit Museum have been restored to operation.

Image is from the Electric Railway Journal · Vol. 45, No. 19 · May 8, 1915 · pp 872-880. (from nycsubway.org)