Grand Central Madison TIMETABLES AND RIDERSHIP THREAD

CTG wrote: ↑Sat Mar 04, 2023 6:25 am In this particular case, the train was clean, but I still don't see that it makes a difference.

1762 may have been a turn from an incoming train. But it doesn't have to be. At 5:30 in the evening, there are trains leaving GCT every 3 minutes. Some are turns from incoming trains, others are put-ins. At that time, the LIRR has a choice of where to send an 8-car train and where to send a 10-car train. And they somehow chose to send a 10-car train to West Hempstead. Sorry, that's just a mistake.

CTG - A train that is not fully cleaned/swept is just a simple way to tell if equipment is from another
westbound run as compared to being laid up in a yard facility during the daytime hours out of service.
I offered this as nothing more than an example from my past LIRR riding experiences.

Back during the initial week of GC service there is no doubt mistakes were made on consists remembering the
problems commuters encountered with crowded trains on certain runs - assigning cars to trains based on the
actual demand is part of the "learning curve" with the LIRR new schedule and expanded service plan.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Everyone - Going back over the posts from the last four days my mention of a more gradual implementation
of Grand Central service may have been a better way to introduce riders to the new Manhattan terminal -
instead of being under political and other outside pressure of the "We Want This ASAP Yesterday" mindset.

The Jamaica Station problems with crowding and the numerous required transfers is going to have to be
looked into indepth to see where changes can be made along with schedule adjustments where needed.

A "One Seat Ride" for LIRR commuters (or for that matter any form of public transit) is a goal that is very
elusive to many with the complexity of the LIRR system and more than one dominant terminal station.
Offering more single rides where possible can offer benefits for the LIRR in the long run...MACTRAXX

They will eventually work out the mistakes in train lengths and make schedule adjustments. As that happens, many passengers will also find that Grand Central is a good destination for them and make the switch from Penn. Many others will find that they can just take whatever westbound train comes first at their station and vary their commute (for example, someone who works on 6th Avenue in the 40's).

The things that may not be so quickly fixed include (1) getting passengers off an arriving Brooklyn shuttle and to their track. There are only three stairways up from the shuttle platform. When a peak period train arrives and discharges 400+ passengers, the congestion getting everyone off that platform will be severe; and (2) not enough exits to the street towards Madison Ave. Anyone taking the train to GCM who works in the 40's or 50's from Madison to Sixth is going to want to use the exit to 47th and Madison. While there are plenty of escalators from the platforms and mezzanine to the concourse level, getting from the concourse to 47/Mad involves going up one level by staircase and then up a single escalator (that also handles exiting Metro North riders). I'm expecting that to also become a major frustration.

4behind2 and Mactraxx: Your theories on how the new schedules were arrived at, due to political influence from Albany is interesting. But what's MTA's big hurry to create more open tracks in Penn Station when it will probably be several years before Metro-North train service to Penn Station can begin? They have to build some stations in the Bronx and make other improvements from New Rochelle to Harold Interlocking, right?

Assuming that's going to take a while, MTA could have continued to run more trains to Penn for now and gradually transitioned towards more trains diverting to Grand Central over the next few years, which might coincide with more passengers going to Grand Central in the years ahead.

The new Penn schedules have the consideration of reduced capacity of one of the four North River bores being OOS for refurbishment. They definenty could've gotten to this level of GCT/Penn service more gradually (across several months, not years), but here we are.

Good point nomis, but I think you meant to say the East River Tunnels, right?

Mistakes were made. Schedules were written to accommodate railroad operations and hope was that they would fill the riders' needs.

Ridership prefers Penn Station to Grand Central. It was silly to assume - from the onset - that this would not be the case.

Downtown riders - which constitute a majority of NY arrivals since the pandemic pause prefer Brooklyn and Penn to Grand Central. Walking time at Grand Central nixes the new option.

In the rush to move Brooklyn service a step closer to rapid transit takeover, Brooklyn's Downtown NY service has been decimated. This is a blow to the financial sector as well as to the City in general.

Scheduling for tunnel work could have been delayed until the equipment and engineer shortage was corrected.

Of course, as in any socialist state, these decisions were made politically with little regard to cost or efficiency. We're seeing the result.

Railroad.net is a marvelous and serious website without abuse or silliness. However, I make a ridiculous proposal: On a westbound m-u train that has a fifteen-minute express run before Jamaica, have the conductor announce, "Where do you want to go?" and have the trainmen then take a rough count with raised hands. Penn Station? Grand Central? Brooklyn? Hunterspoint. Have the winning destination radioed ahead to the dispatcher, who will direct the train to the preferred terminal. As long as the train moves west, I am sure there will be an open slot.

I like that idea. Or have riders for/from different branches and terminals choose their car man all pairs with an engineer and just pull a chain release before the CP lol.

K&K your correct, this was all political. They expected 40+% to go to Madison I think based on a survey and hunch. Now they’re saying it’s more like 30. And they screwed Brooklyn and Oyster Bay. With the delay in delivering the M-9’s, they just weren’t ready for the chaos.

Head-End View may be correct, a multi-stage phase-in might have been better.

MACTRAXX wrote: ↑Tue Mar 07, 2023 12:42 pm

CTG wrote: ↑Sat Mar 04, 2023 6:25 am In this particular case, the train was clean, but I still don't see that it makes a difference.

1762 may have been a turn from an incoming train. But it doesn't have to be. At 5:30 in the evening, there are trains leaving GCT every 3 minutes. Some are turns from incoming trains, others are put-ins. At that time, the LIRR has a choice of where to send an 8-car train and where to send a 10-car train. And they somehow chose to send a 10-car train to West Hempstead. Sorry, that's just a mistake.

CTG - A train that is not fully cleaned/swept is just a simple way to tell if equipment is from another
westbound run as compared to being laid up in a yard facility during the daytime hours out of service.
I offered this as nothing more than an example from my past LIRR riding experiences.

Back during the initial week of GC service there is no doubt mistakes were made on consists remembering the
problems commuters encountered with crowded trains on certain runs - assigning cars to trains based on the
actual demand is part of the "learning curve" with the LIRR new schedule and expanded service plan.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Everyone - Going back over the posts from the last four days my mention of a more gradual implementation
of Grand Central service may have been a better way to introduce riders to the new Manhattan terminal -
instead of being under political and other outside pressure of the "We Want This ASAP Yesterday" mindset.

The Jamaica Station problems with crowding and the numerous required transfers is going to have to be
looked into indepth to see where changes can be made along with schedule adjustments where needed.

A "One Seat Ride" for LIRR commuters (or for that matter any form of public transit) is a goal that is very
elusive to many with the complexity of the LIRR system and more than one dominant terminal station.
Offering more single rides where possible can offer benefits for the LIRR in the long run...MACTRAXX

Some Penn trains need to be 12 cars or you need to move a train from GCT to Penn.
Examples: 4:01pm Penn to Ronk. Replaces 2 Penn trains.. the most crowded being the former 3:55pm which was a crowded 12 cars to begin with. They replaced it with an 8 car train..... NOPE. NOw its a 10 car train and its still overcrowded. SOLUTION- 12 cars or move the 4:09 train back to a Penn start so the load is spread. This 409 is mostly empty leaving GCT.

https://www.timeout.com/newyork/news/le ... ins-030823

…

But the lack of grandiosity might end up actually benefiting the whole ordeal, forcing officials to focus on service and technical issues instead of the aesthetic, which brings us to the current problem associated with Grand Central Terminal: the horrible schedule it follows.

Instead of providing commuters with additional trains to access the city from Long Island and vice versa, the LIRR has cut the number of rides in and out of Penn Station in half, placing the other half on the east side line. That has obviously been a disaster since full service launched less than a month ago, with riders complaining about less frequent and shorter trains. There’s quite literally no room for everyone on board during peak rush hours.
…

The only positive I see is that the proposed fare increase, which is probably necessary, is now on hold until the MTA fixes this debacle.

What should happen is that Catherine Rinaldi should admit failure and starting April 1, re-instate the schedules that were in effect prior to February 27th. Then gradually adjust service to GCT depending on ridership

Admittedly, this will not happen, but it is the quickest way to correct this debacle.

#1564, the 5:46 out of Penn to Huntington (formerly a 12-car) is currently an 8-car. LIRR's train time app shows the train having "crush capacity" in the rear four cars (129, 114 w/ lav, 135, 120 w/ lav) and heavy loads in the front four. #1662, the 5:33 out of GCM, has 10 cars and averages about 50 people per car.

At least they had the intelligence to make #270, the 5:51 out of GCT to Babylon, an 8 car (currently less than a third full) while #174 (5:40 out of Penn) is a 12 car and about 2/3 full.

Also, the new Brentwood locals are stupid. That is all.

News 12 reports terminal changes and other items effective Monday March 13,2023
https://longisland.news12.com/frustrati ... ng-changes

Looks like LIRR is slowly figuring out exactly what the riders and people here have been saying since this started.

Head-end View wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 8:08 pm Looks like LIRR is slowly figuring out exactly what the riders and people here have been saying since this started.

People were saying all these things that are being adjusted now during the public hearings after the draft schedules came out. They ignored the riders.