Delaware and Raritan River Railroad-General Discussion

I'd wager the insurance on 13 mi of ROW is a rounding error in the insurance bill on an active quarry. There are a surprising number of abandoned lines that still exist as single properties because it is smarter to pay the taxes and insurance than it is to remove the possibility of reopening the line (unless the owners are desperate for cash); I presume because property acquisition is the hardest part of (re)building a railroad. For example, note that CSX abandoned the S Line between Petersburg and Norlina (even ripping out track) in 1986, but maintained the property until selling it to NC and VA in 2021, and see the legal fights over the Texas Central railroad.

All that said, if the railway ROW also used as a communications or power ROW, so the owners could be collecting rents on the ROW. (I think one of the reasons a Class I may lease a line to a short line operator instead of selling is that they are already collecting rents from other users of the ROW.)

David wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 12:33 am Good and close sources have informed and convinced me that the sand trains will be ready to run once the rail segment from Lakewood to Lakehurst is cleared. Then NJSL will begin to operate. Their equipment, which has been acquired, will be able to move the 13 miles from Lakehurst to Woodmansie. That segment is constantly observed and maintained.

Sand trains have been "eminent" for years, ever since two individuals with no direct knowledge or involvement made representations in a federal document as part of an attempt to interfere with an unrelated transaction involving a long unused right of way elsewhere in the state. Why, we're forced to ask, therefore, has the traffic not began moving nor even any attempt to establish some type of loading facility at the customer's facility or any other step in furtherance of beginning such service? Even a casual observer can see that the only work that has been done in the intervening years was to clear the line of overgrowth and to restore some road crossings that were improperly paved over.

There have been several assertions that this traffic, or any traffic for that matter, is prohibited on NJ Transit, or there is an additional charge to customers for traffic moved across NJ Transit. This is not factual nor correct. Other than long standing (pre-1983) height restrictions and normal weight restrictions there is no limitation on the traffic moving across NJT. Keep in mind, for those espousing that the reopening of the line to Farmingdale will allow "restricted" traffic to now move, all traffic moving to and from Browns operates across NJT already, from Essay to Wood. Further, it is expected that the new River Draw, once completed, will allow heavier cars access to Browns.

It can not be made clearer than by the fact that the owner of both the line and the source of such rumored traffic spent money to involve themselves in the proceeding only to state that the idea of sand trains had no basis in fact. This has been repeatedly shared here by link to the document filed with the STB, under the penalty of perjury.

Please keep away from rumors--Thank you.

It can not be ignored that your entire post, but for this sentence, is a rumor. Please do not abuse your position as moderator to stifle any facts that do not support your position.

I am an agnostic where it comes to the sand trains.

Please correct me if I go astray here, but it was my understanding that both Clayton and Mr. Macrie had said there were currently no plans for sand trains, and that they were in no way connected with the attempt to acquire the abandoned ROW for use of said sand trains, and such routing would not happen in any case. There was no statement that there were never going to be sand trains that I saw.

Again, please clarify if you can, just so I can get this straight in my own mind.

In other news, they are surveying the boundaries of railroad property where it crosses Southard Ave this morning. Will that be the first crossing to go in?

RandallW wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 6:08 am All that said, if the railway ROW also used as a communications or power ROW, so the owners could be collecting rents on the ROW. (I think one of the reasons a Class I may lease a line to a short line operator instead of selling is that they are already collecting rents from other users of the ROW.)

From pictures and what I have seen of the ROW, no utilities use it. I don't think there's even telephone lines on it, unless there is something buried alongside the ROW.

Sirsonic wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 8:36 am There have been several assertions that this traffic, or any traffic for that matter, is prohibited on NJ Transit, or there is an additional charge to customers for traffic moved across NJ Transit. This is not factual nor correct. Other than long standing (pre-1983) height restrictions and normal weight restrictions there is no limitation on the traffic moving across NJT. Keep in mind, for those espousing that the reopening of the line to Farmingdale will allow "restricted" traffic to now move, all traffic moving to and from Browns operates across NJT already, from Essay to Wood. Further, it is expected that the new River Draw, once completed, will allow heavier cars access to Browns.

But there are restrictions on NJT that would affect hypothetical sand trains. Modern, covered hoppers that would be used for moving sand would be in the 286K weight radius, and that is not allowed on NJT's coastline. As seen on page 2 in this document, the Coastline below South Amboy has multiple weight restrictions on it, whereas routing it through the Amboy Secondary to Freehold to Farmingdale (and beyond on the Southern Secondary), there is no weight restriction. There is also no height restriction alongside this route, because there is obviously a height restriction on the Coastline, and there is even one on the SOUS in Tinton Falls.

The current Raritan Bay Bridge does not have any weight restrictions on it IIRC, they are replacing it primarily because it is a very old bridge (well over 100 years) that has been damaged by Hurricane Sandy, and since then has had its speed limit (originally 60+ MPH) halved down to 30MPH.

Sirsonic wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 8:36 am It can not be made clearer than by the fact that the owner of both the line and the source of such rumored traffic spent money to involve themselves in the proceeding only to state that the idea of sand trains had no basis in fact. This has been repeatedly shared here by link to the document filed with the STB, under the penalty of perjury.

CharlieL wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 11:10 am Please correct me if I go astray here, but it was my understanding that both Clayton and Mr. Macrie had said there were currently no plans for sand trains, and that they were in no way connected with the attempt to acquire the abandoned ROW for use of said sand trains, and such routing would not happen in any case. There was no statement that there were never going to be sand trains that I saw.

Then that makes even less sense. If Clayton and whoever, when acquiring this line and working on it, said that they wouldn't use it for sand trains, what the hell else are they gonna use it for? They aren't maintaining and holding onto the line for "future potential use" if they told the STB and other legal entities that it won't be used for sand.

Is it possible that if they changed their minds, they could file a new STB proceeding? The one being referenced right now is from quite a while ago

CharlieL wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 11:13 am In other news, they are surveying the boundaries of railroad property where it crosses Southard Ave this morning. Will that be the first crossing to go in?

They could but it wouldn't make much sense IMO to work on a crossing on the complete other side of the line, where they are beginning track work.

I am now thoroughly convinced that sand trains may or may not operate on the SOUS/FIT at some time in the near or far future.
Lets get back to talking about the track rebuilding and train movements....

@pdtrains I might try to get some more pictures of progress tomorrow. Depends on what I’m doing later in the afternoon.

The abandoned ROW I mentioned was less than a half mile long, way up north (JC Area?) and there was an attempted takeover of it waay back in 2009.

Today completes 4 full weeks of work (they started Tuesday, the day after MLK day)

Pretty good progress !!

Considering what’s been done so far, I agree.

https://www.facebook.com/1331405697/pos ... tid=Nif5oz
As far as the guide wires being in the way. They can just curve the track around them... Just like this

Let's be honest,

If there truly was a demand for the so called sand out of Clayton, wouldn't conrail have done there part on the line to rehab it? Clearly there isn't a need if they never budged on their part.

And before you say anything about conrail not wanting to spend money on it, they've still gone out of there way for much less car traffic than this would even generate. Remember, there's two sides to shipping.

Truckload of steel ties sitting at Okerson Rd. Maybe some rail will go down this week?

CharlieL wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 5:11 pm Truckload of steel ties sitting at Okerson Rd. Maybe some rail will go down this week?

Before any ballast?

Pix?

TIA