Superliner Equipment Status

eolesen wrote: ↑Wed Jul 13, 2022 8:12 pm but from a facilities standpoint... every 737 they fly will fit into one of Southwest's hangars, and every 737 will fit onto the gates they lease.

The Acela certainly can't get to every one of Amtrak's service facilities or stations...by your logic then Amtrak should ditch Acela?

The ADA argument is the only valid one presented so far, IMO. And it's too bad ADA might scuttle bilevel. If anything, I think it is far easier for a wheelchair to access the lower level of a Superliner than a single level car (from a low platform, which is the vast majority outside NEC.) In all my years traveling Amtrak, I've never seen one of those chair lifts used.

rohr turbo wrote: ↑Thu Jul 14, 2022 4:06 pm The Acela certainly can't get to every one of Amtrak's service facilities or stations...by your logic then Amtrak should ditch Acela?

Honestly, yes....

Acela is as a white elephant much like the A380 has turned out to be... only good in a very narrowly defined mission.

Running normal everyday Siemens equipment would be far superior to running dedicated equipment. No need for a dedicated maintenance facility capable of handling an intact trainset, much easier to deal with when substituting for an equipment breakdown, and by swapping power or using dual mode locomotives, you can extend thru trains logically vs. only where the wires run...

rohr turbo wrote: ↑Thu Jul 14, 2022 4:06 pm The ADA argument is the only valid one presented so far, IMO. And it's too bad ADA might scuttle bilevel. If anything, I think it is far easier for a wheelchair to access the lower level of a Superliner than a single level car (from a low platform, which is the vast majority outside NEC.)

And then the mobility impaired are essentially held prisoner in that one car and can't enjoy all the amenities of those with full mobility....

I was reading a study on accessibility, and the elevators on bi-level trains seem to be used more by the elderly than they are for actual people in wheelchairs.

rohr turbo wrote: ↑Thu Jul 14, 2022 4:06 pm In all my years traveling Amtrak, I've never seen one of those chair lifts used.

As a Metra commuter, I saw the passenger lifts used almost daily to bring wheelchairs and scooters from low level platforms up into the main level of a gallery car, which is essentially the same height as single level equipment. It adds negligible amounts of time to a station stop. It's a minimal portable investment and an ideal solution vs. high platforms or the crank-o-matic lifts that you see around at Amtrak stops.

rohr turbo wrote: ↑Thu Jul 14, 2022 4:06 pm The Acela certainly can't get to every one of Amtrak's service facilities or stations...by your logic then Amtrak should ditch Acela?

The ADA argument is the only valid one presented so far, IMO. And it's too bad ADA might scuttle bilevel. If anything, I think it is far easier for a wheelchair to access the lower level of a Superliner than a single level car (from a low platform, which is the vast majority outside NEC.) In all my years traveling Amtrak, I've never seen one of those chair lifts used.

If I can do a rough design and find the equipment to have passengers go from low-block to upper-level inside a Superliner, then ADA concerns are addressed in new bi-level equipment.

mcgrath618 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 4:39 pm Why were bi-levels ever preferred? Capacity? Considering I’ve never seen a Capitol Limited at anything less than packed, you’re really not getting those benefits right now with such a limited supply of cars.

Because 'Murrica wanted to be different?

west point wrote: ↑Fri Jul 08, 2022 8:41 pm This whole SL availability is nuts. Someone in the administration or Congress must require Amtrak to list evey single passenger car. That includes present condition of each and how soon any out of service cars can be returned to service. Especially the amount of time that it will take to return to roadworth and passenger worthy status. If say 10 cars can be roadworthy quickly then move them to be axel count cars, If the preset axel cars can be returned to passenger worthy quicker then move present axel cars to revenue..

Note: This applies to single level cars as well.

Has there really been THAT many wrecks in recent years? Or are the cars just getting old and worn out?

479 Superliners were bought in the two orders. 371 remain on the books. How many are at Beech Grove awaiting lawsuits or in repair for return to service, I don’t know. More later, time for me to get ready for work.

Grief Colonel, that is 23% of the fleet "written off" over 43 years (first revenue service was '79). I wonder what a comparable figure for the single level fleet would be.

No wonder if Amtrak is to order more cars for the LD fleet, first let them be single level and second, readily convertible to short distance configurations should the LD's be pared or even outright eliminated.

Of course, the advocacy community wants bi-level equipment. Such really cannot be used in the East where most of "the action that counts" occurs, so they become one more reason to "throw in the face" of those who question further need for the LD's (uh, me?).

Gilbert B Norman wrote: ↑Fri Jul 15, 2022 2:05 pm Grief Colonel, that is 23% of the fleet "written off" over 43 years (first revenue service was '79). I wonder what a comparable figure for the single level fleet would be.

Amtrak bought 493 Amfleet I and has 457 in service (93% still in service). 3 were sold to a private party in 2020-2021.

Amtrak bought 150 Amfleet II and has 138 in service (92% still in service).

Amtrak bought 104 Horizon and has 92 in service (88% still in service).

23% of the fleet being stricken seems comparatively high. I wish I could find a breakdown between the I and II variants.

Then of course we have the El Capatin cars including the Pacific Parlour cars.

Other thoughts on future bilevels… As long as the Autotrain is around, there will be some use for bilevels, but besides the Autotrain would be people more amenable to future bilevels if a good portion could be converted to commuter service relatively easily?

They have that much of an excess of Amfleet / non-Superliner sleepers?

I believe that Finland and Russia are the only other countries that have bilevel sleeping cars. The Finnish ones look really cool. Bilevels are cool and the extra space leads to interesting design possibilities, but I just don't think they're practical for intercity travel in today's environment. Amtrak is committed to having a uniform fleet and having new trainsets be accessible end to end. It simply isn't practical to do that with bilevels.

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I would dispute that, given what I've seen of (GASP!) bus lift technology.

What is the issue here? Getting wheelchairs up/down? Or getting them from car to car once they're at the upper level?

Getting them from lower to upper, or even to high-block, just means taking a lift up the stairs. If that means designing the car around the stairs, so be it. The point here is that there is existing technology, dating back to the 1990's, that solves this problem.

Getting them from car to car due to track wobble is a track issue, not a car design issue, and is out of scope.

Over 100 Superliners out of service. How many OOS cars can be made road worth and passenger ready quickly?