Missouri Amtrak Service

I live in Kansas City, and pass Union Station on the way to/from work.

40 pax requires 32 axles:
Locomotive (a charger right now)
Business Class/lounge
2 coaches
4 V-II Bags

I hate to say it, it's time to KILL this service. It's wasting manpower on Amtrak's part, equipment on Amtraks part, and carbon on everyone's part.

A thruway will more than do the job.

I am curious if it would work to combine a Hiawatha train out of Milwaukee with a Lincoln service one to St. Louis and the remaining Missouri train on to KC. That way the state subsidy could be borne by the three states through which this train would run. could such a service gain ridership? You would be going through Chicago instead of changing there.

Alex M wrote: ↑Sat Jan 01, 2022 10:11 am I am curious if it would work to combine a Hiawatha train out of Milwaukee with a Lincoln service one to St. Louis and the remaining Missouri train on to KC. That way the state subsidy could be borne by the three states through which this train would run. could such a service gain ridership? You would be going through Chicago instead of changing there.

Would be a great idea if all three trains were made with the same consist, but they are not.
No business class on the Hiawatha, no need for additional cars for shunting on the Hiawatha. Business class needed on the Lincoln and River Runner trains. No additional cars for shunting the Lincoln trains, but are needed for the River Runner trains.

Why run a train through that entire distance if cars will be needed to be switched on and off the train so often? There are valid reasons why Amtrak operate these trains the way they do, after 50 years one would think they have fixed it to the best possible way! 50 years is a long time to gather the experience to run these trains as efficient as possible with the available funding. Why do so many think Amtrak are fools?

Alex M wrote:I am curious if it would work to combine a Hiawatha train out of Milwaukee with a Lincoln service one to St. Louis and the remaining Missouri train on to KC. That way the state subsidy could be borne by the three states through which this train would run. could such a service gain ridership? You would be going through Chicago instead of changing there.

I'm not sure that saves a whole lot. The fuel, labor, and access fees paid to the host railroads is still going to be the same if you run three shorter distance trains or one longer distance train.

Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk

It’s official, one turn daily as of today for the rest of the Fiscal year.

Read it at the Trains Magazine website

David Benton wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 8:02 pm Buses would be handy to provide thruway services to increase the utility and connection of the trains. If you have a train like this , that appears to have excess capacity , then using connecting bus services to full the train is cost effective. If for example they can spend $ 1 miilion on bus services but generate $2 million worth of ridership , theyre saving a million.

Is state subsidized Thruway service a thing?

Does it make sense to retain the 1-a-day service? Would it be better to throw in the towel and just bustitute the whole thing? If you removed passenger service, would that be irreversible? Would it lead to the end of freight service on the line?

It's not nice to kick a man when he is down. How does the passenger load compare to the Before Time?

California has an extensive network of state subsidized Thruway buses.

BandA wrote: ↑Thu Mar 24, 2022 12:04 pm

David Benton wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 8:02 pm Buses would be handy to provide thruway services to increase the utility and connection of the trains. If you have a train like this , that appears to have excess capacity , then using connecting bus services to full the train is cost effective. If for example they can spend $ 1 miilion on bus services but generate $2 million worth of ridership , theyre saving a million.

Is state subsidized Thruway service a thing?

Does it make sense to retain the 1-a-day service? Would it be better to throw in the towel and just bustitute the whole thing? If you removed passenger service, would that be irreversible? Would it lead to the end of freight service on the line?

It's not nice to kick a man when he is down. How does the passenger load compare to the Before Time?

Eliminating the service is not the answer, and yes, it is nearly irreversible, because, once a passenger train service is discontinued, the slots the dispatchers used to give the passenger trains no longer running on that route go to the host railroad, and getting those slots back would costs hundreds of millions, even a billion or two if it happens at all. This is true even if freight service continues to operate on the former Amtrak route and there are no capacity reductions on the infrastructure. In addition, buses are not as comfortable or energy efficient as trains, and get stuck in the same traffic congestion in major cities as automobiles, resulting in lower schedule reliability. Trains are also better than highways at generating economic development in the cities they serve. Every time a passenger train goes away, so do the positive economic impacts in the cities that the train served.

What we need to do is start writing and calling Missouri legislators and demand that they appropriate the necessary funding to put the second frequency back in service. In your letter or phone call, threaten to vote them out of office if they don't do what you're asking them to do. If they still won't listen, carry through on your threat and vote against them when they come up for re-election. Keep repeating this cycle until there are legislators in office that listen to WE THE PEOPLE, not only to the billionaires whose support got them in office in the first place.

Mr. B&A, March '71 Guide shows MP had "two a day" over the route. As train discontinuances were "frozen" after enactment of RPSA70, they were there on A-Day Eve. One actually offered food service.

As is, both the MP and the Wabash missed the most important on-line traffic source; Mizzou at Columbia. However, until relatively "late in the game", the WAB had a Centralia-Columbia "Mixto Diario".

So the Missouri legislature cannot be faulted as when they appropriated funds for the service, they did so for the preexisting level. But sufficient time has elapsed to show "the butts on the cushions just ain't there" (and apparently weren't pre-COVID as well), what else could represent prudence. Col. Perkowski's observation of four V-Bags being used for axle count simply is indicative of the route "ain't cuttin' it".

One must wonder if Amtrak is giving thought to converting "a good number" of the V-Bags to some kind of revenue use, such as Coaches. While the entire V-II procurement can only be called a fiasco, at least Amtrak found assignments for the V-II Sleepers, maybe half the V-II "Diners", and some number of the Bags away from axle counts. Who knows? maybe some of the V-Bags are now stationary tool cars somewhere in the System.

Finally to Anthony; it appears that NARP is having some kind of "pow wow" this weekend. Such would be an ideal venue at which to express your immediate thoughts.

Anthony wrote: In your letter or phone call, threaten to vote them out of office if they don't do what you're asking them to do.

The only person here I know of who votes in Missouri has already said to replace it with a bus. If you live out of district, withholding your vote is a rather hollow threat...

Anthony wrote: . Keep repeating this cycle until there are legislators in office that listen to WE THE PEOPLE, not only to the billionaires whose support got them in office in the first place.

You crack me up... Just how many billionaires do you think are interested in electing the state legislature in Missouri?

Anthony wrote: ↑Thu Mar 24, 2022 8:03 pm?

What we need to do is start writing and calling Missouri legislators and demand that they appropriate the necessary funding to put the second frequency back in service. In your letter or phone call, threaten to vote them out of office if they don't do what you're asking them to do. If they still won't listen, carry through on your threat and vote against them when they come up for re-election. Keep repeating this cycle until there are legislators in office that listen to WE THE PEOPLE, not only to the billionaires whose support got them in office in the first place.

On Missourian to another?

You do realize the General Assembly and the State Senate are well and truly in Republican hands, yes?

John_Perkowski wrote: ↑Sat Mar 26, 2022 1:33 am

Anthony wrote: ↑Thu Mar 24, 2022 8:03 pm?

What we need to do is start writing and calling Missouri legislators and demand that they appropriate the necessary funding to put the second frequency back in service. In your letter or phone call, threaten to vote them out of office if they don't do what you're asking them to do. If they still won't listen, carry through on your threat and vote against them when they come up for re-election. Keep repeating this cycle until there are legislators in office that listen to WE THE PEOPLE, not only to the billionaires whose support got them in office in the first place.

On Missourian to another?

You do realize the General Assembly and the State Senate are well and truly in Republican hands, yes?

That doesn't mean they have to keep re-electing these officials. With the United States being a democracy, the people have the power to vote for their officials. This isn't a dictatorship where power is inherited and passed down through the generations of one family. If you don't like the job your elected officials are doing, vote them out of office when they come up for re-election. Every American needs to start participating in our democracy TODAY, or else we will lose it.

You failed civics. We're a representative Republic, not a democracy.

Politicians aren't why service in Missouri is a failure. People stopped riding the train... the Politicians are simply responding to economic reality. No riders, no funding.

Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk

I'm here in MO. The trains are used and supported although Covid has had an impact. UP has not been overly friendly with frequent cancellations/bus substitutions and pokey time keeping despite a real reduction in freight trains on the line. UP has also insisted on long consists for axle count purposes claiming it is needed to trigger signals and crossing lights. This is also frustrating because the route and bridges have been upgraded which was supposed to help Amtrak and freight service.

Unfortunately, MO has become increasing red over the last few years so our legislature is more concerned with guns, abortions, vaccines, schoolbooks and other social issues rather than providing transportation. Interstate 70 (our main route across the state) is often packed with traffic and in need of major rebuilding.

One can only hope that with warmer weather the train returns but it is also possible that MO could go the way of Indiana with those of us that believe in things like public transportation having no effective say.