CNJ Southern Secondary Woodmansie - Winslow

Whoah.
1. The encroachment isn't as bad as I thought it would be, however, it's still enough that it would complicate construction and trains would probably not be able to clear the ROW with the pumps and house on the intersection being so close.
2. Amazing that the rails are still there after nearly 50 years.

Ken W2KB wrote: ↑Wed Feb 02, 2022 12:45 pm If it is ever decided to reactivate, the encroachments are not an impediment. The State or its designated railroad operator can simply at will remove any encroachments to rebuild the rail infrastructure.

In theory, yes, but in reality, I have to disagree. NJ is not very property-owner friendly when it comes to these. According to some people more knowledgeable on railroad affairs in this forum than I am, C&D/D&D is having huge problems trying to get people encroaching on the Farmingdale-Freehold ROW to go away.

In addition, the SRNJ in the 90's wanted to restore nearly the entire Southern Division, and for some reason, the state would not let them. How things are done in NJ, especially with regards to railroads, is all screwed up.

Looking at Google Maps, it doesn't look like too many are encroaching on the F&JA ROW. The power substation on Howell Rd looks like it's in the way and a landscaping supply looks like it "leaked" it's way across the ROW. A farm on Cranbury Road looks like some outbuildings are on the ROW. A company on Bennett Road that built roof trusses is gone, and they were all over the ROW when they were there. There are many places where the rails are still intact, seen from the satellite views, however dated the pics are. Just a couple of property owners that are causing all this fuss doesn't surprise me. How can you be a NIMBY when it's already there?

Waiting for updates. Would love to see the F&JA running again in my lifetime.

@GSC It’s going to be a while before anything happens, provided anyone does happen. There is still some Red Tape to cut.

@JohnFromJersey After the final train in March 1981, Conrail pretty much left the line there. Aside from some rail theft and bridges missing the line is all there.

I've been all over the section between Okerson Rd and rte 524 using maps.google.com, and I see zero encroachment. Remember the rails are approx. 25 ft to the north of the cleared powerline row, mostly in dense growth.. Even the small garden center off Fairfield Rd with their stacks of beehives is clear. The poles at the substation are clearly in the powerline row, not the rail row.

Does anyone have any tangible sources on what kind of red tape is holding the F&JA revival is? I'm wondering if we can find any legal documents etc about it

CharlieL wrote: ↑Sun Feb 06, 2022 4:03 pm I've been all over the section between Okerson Rd and rte 524 using maps.google.com, and I see zero encroachment. Remember the rails are approx. 25 ft to the north of the cleared powerline row, mostly in dense growth.. Even the small garden center off Fairfield Rd with their stacks of beehives is clear. The poles at the substation are clearly in the powerline row, not the rail row.

Unlike potentially upon certain conditions,with respect to other classes of owners of property, encroachers on railroad or state and state subdivision owned property acquire no legal rights and encroachments can be removed at will by the railroad or government entity.

I just thought of something.

A little while ago there was discussion on here about the state mentioning that the Southern Secondary would be a more direct route to Bridgeton in an NJTPA PowerPoint.

That has me wondering,

If the state is thinking of having traffic to Winchester and Western and Winslow Junction go that way, how much traffic going into there is coming down on the CSX River Sub? Going to Bridgeton that way means cutting the entire Trenton Sub off, along with the Camden transfer (MI-61) and the transfer to Philly Yard. (CA-07) Only for traffic coming from that way though.

That's true. The Trenton Subdivision would still have to get served cause it has local industries, but on the Southern, they would not have to worry about any passenger trains

Does anyone have any data on how many cars move between North and South Jersey on a daily or weekly basis in either direction? Without this knowledge this entire discussion is moot.

R&DB wrote: ↑Thu Feb 10, 2022 12:18 pm Does anyone have any data on how many cars move between North and South Jersey on a daily or weekly basis in either direction? Without this knowledge this entire discussion is moot.

Allegedly someone said that the amount of railcars that move between Browns and Camden is very very small, however, that's not a very good judge of the overall load between the two. I'd imagine that there are other ways they would be introduced to Camden...

However, I'd have to say that if the Southern's reactivation has been mulled this many times over the last decade or two, there's quite a lot of freight that would move over it from North Jersey to South Jersey and vice versa. It's probably the obscene cost to not only reactivate Winslow-Woodmansie, but to rebuild the entire Southern/FIT is keeping them away from it.

I have a feeling that the C&D project to reconnect Freehold and Farmingdale COULD be part of such a plan. Why else would they do so? The traffic on the Southern hasn't changed for a long time now and probably won't, even if Plate F/286K cars were allowed. Sure, NJT does not like freight, but do they not like it to the point that they will give C&D a blank check (remember, there will be multiple phases) to rebuild 5 miles of rail just to get a once a week train off the Coastline?

The question is not Browns to Camden but Oak Island to Vineland.

@R&DB The Southern is pretty good for that if they set it up right.

Bracdude181 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 10, 2022 4:52 pm @R&DB The Southern is pretty good for that if they set it up right

But is there any traffic?