Lackawanna Cutoff Passenger Service Restoration

JohnFromJersey wrote: ↑Fri Feb 04, 2022 4:08 pm I think it's not really fair to look at the numbers this proposed service would be doing in a current scenario. The line has a lot of potential to open up opportunities that could dramatically increase its use (increasing tourism, increasing the amount of residents living in the area, etc) that we cannot account for until after it is completed. Investments rarely have their value revealed immediately after the money is spent on them, we'd have to wait upwards of a generation to see the effect it would have, and that's ok in my book.

All this being said, Amtrak is going to need some VERY fast trains to make this appealing. 80 MPH minimum, especially when people do more than that in their cars on I-80!!

79 MPH should be feasible, over much of it.
What's The MAS for the existing NJT route?

There's no way you're hitting 79 anywhere east of Dover. The line is neither sufficiently straight nor has enough capacity for such running speeds.

JohnFromJersey wrote: ↑Fri Feb 04, 2022 4:08 pm I think it's not really fair to look at the numbers this proposed service would be doing in a current scenario. The line has a lot of potential to open up opportunities that could dramatically increase its use (increasing tourism, increasing the amount of residents living in the area, etc) that we cannot account for until after it is completed.

While I agree with this in principle, the running times on this train make it hard to justify in practice.

Per the 2020 census, the population in Scranton has not changed in the past decade. The average commute time for people in the area is 20 minutes. Mr. Bug's hypothetical 4-hour commutes are indeed so draconian that no one is making them. And I suspect that reducing the commute time from 4 hours to 3 is not going to make much of a difference.

First, not all commutes on the new line will be the full distance. Somewhere in PA to somewhere in NJ or to NYP. Second, it's not just for commuters, as has been noted numerous times.

Will NJ Transit request rebidding of the contract? I am hearing the bids are far more that were expected.

Mr. Patel, I presume you are addressing the Roseville Tunnel.

Anyone know what's keeping the project managers from "daylighting" it. It doesn't look all that deep from the various videos.

Hoping there's more reason than Hootie the Owl, or whatever critter now calls it home.

From what I have read in the distant past, the geology is such that an extremely wide cut back would be required to prevent rockslides. That would imply a very large amount of material being removed and disposed of,

Gilbert B Norman wrote: ↑Sun Feb 06, 2022 11:39 am Hoping there's more reason than Hootie the Owl, or whatever critter now calls it home.

Endangered bats. Also timber rattlers and copperheads are known to live along the line (in the tunnel as well),
the former state designated endangered, latter "special concern" risk.

Sounds like politicians are living along the line! (in reference to the snakes).

If the tunnel is daylighted would there be a likely possibility of the then cut having major snow drifts closing the route?

photobug56 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 05, 2022 3:11 pm First, not all commutes on the new line will be the full distance. Somewhere in PA to somewhere in NJ or to NYP. Second, it's not just for commuters, as has been noted numerous times.

If that's the case this line should emphasize the regional rail part (suburb-to-suburb) more than having some magical railroad from NYC to smack in the middle of PA.

lensovet wrote: ↑Sat Feb 05, 2022 1:23 pm While I agree with this in principle, the running times on this train make it hard to justify in practice.

Per the 2020 census, the population in Scranton has not changed in the past decade. The average commute time for people in the area is 20 minutes. Mr. Bug's hypothetical 4-hour commutes are indeed so draconian that no one is making them. And I suspect that reducing the commute time from 4 hours to 3 is not going to make much of a difference.

Bit confused here, especially since there's so much going on in the Transportation Bill and this forum is almost 400 pages long. AFAIK there are (2) options for a Scranton to NYC line, them being along the Lehigh Line (which I think Amtrak is going to use?) and restoring the old Lackawanna Cutoff. I could be wrong. I'm going to assume one will be significantly less time than the other but the other will be far cheaper?

It's my understanding that it will be the Cutoff, but I don't think anyone knows for sure at this point. But Allentown may get it's own Amtrak route to NYP, though I know nothing of the routing.

Whether Amtrak or a commuter railroad, a given route seldom has all passengers going from one extreme to the other. People get on or off at different points. For instance, commuters and tourists might go between NYP and the Poconos. Or Newark to Scranton. Right now, I dread driving along I80 and I380 anywhere near close to rush hour or holiday commutes, and I don't fancy bus rides any better. No one ever said this was just about NYP <-> Scranton only. That's why there are stops along the way - there are at least 3 or 4 colleges, ski resorts, and other things along the way, not to ignore in Scranton. And if this does well, it could be extended to Wilkes Barre or Binghamton. Or even the Southern Tier.

I did not refer nor infer daylighting. I hearing NJT May rebid in hopes of getting lower price bids for the current project. It did not anticipate such high bids in its budget.

pateljones wrote: ↑Mon Feb 07, 2022 9:36 am I did not refer nor infer daylighting. I hearing NJT May rebid in hopes of getting lower price bids for the current project. It did not anticipate such high bids in its budget.

What a bureaucratic mess. This area really sucks for getting mega projects going

JohnFromJersey wrote: ↑Mon Feb 07, 2022 4:32 pm

pateljones wrote: ↑Mon Feb 07, 2022 9:36 am I did not refer nor infer daylighting. I hearing NJT May rebid in hopes of getting lower price bids for the current project. It did not anticipate such high bids in its budget.

What a bureaucratic mess. This area really sucks for getting mega projects going

Yeah, thus a Brighline type company...
Having to bribe the right people to get things done.